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Is anyone actually hearing what Bush is saying?
The Christian Science Monitor ^ | November 19, 2003 | John Hughes

Posted on 11/19/2003 5:48:22 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

SALT LAKE CITY – It's a pity that 99 percent of the protesters against President Bush during his British visit this week will not have read his democracy speech of a couple of weeks ago to the National Endowment for Democracy. (I'm fairly confident about that percentage, because not even 99 percent of his own compatriots have read it).

It offered remarkable insight into Mr. Bush's thinking about freedom for the world's still unfree, and contained significant clues about the new direction he will take in advancing freedom for them during his presidential tenure.

You can protest against the manner in which Bush has gone about bringing freedom to Iraq. That is a legitimate issue for debate. You can rail, with European hauteur, against the style of an American president who wears cowboy boots with his tuxedo and bestows folksy nicknames on foreign leaders.

But nobody, after reading that democracy speech, can doubt the man's passion for bringing at least some form of democracy to those parts of the world where people are still denied it.

Some will dismiss this as simplistic and naive. That, of course, was what some Europeans thought of Ronald Reagan's Palace of Westminster speech in 1982, when he told a British audience that a turning point in history had arrived - that Soviet communism had failed because it did not respect its own people, their creativity, and their rights.

The British protesters against Bush already enjoy stable democracy. Nevertheless their prime minister, Tony Blair, has paid a high political price for voicing the same ambitions as Bush for the world's oppressed. But nobody who listened to his speech at London's Guildhall a few nights ago (a speech 99 percent of Americans never heard, unless they happened to be watching C-SPAN late at night) could question Blair's commitment to the pursuit of liberty for others that his countrymen already celebrate.

In his speech calling for a new "forward strategy" in US foreign policy, Bush pledged to put American power "at the service of principle." But this was no bellicose threat of military action against every nation that tramples human rights.

The postwar problems in Iraq must surely have been sobering to the White House and to the American public alike. The president targeted Cuba and Burma (Myanmar) and North Korea and Zimbabwe as "outposts of oppression," but his particular frustration was reserved for the lands of the Middle East, whose lack of freedom, he said, had been "excused and accommodated," for 60 years by Western nations.

Thus persuasion, and the encouragement of the "leaders of new democracies," who will one day emerge "from prison cells and from exile," seems to be at the heart of the new policy.

Particularly interesting were his remarks about Iran. Though US intelligence about Iraq's nuclear planning may have been flaky, there isn't much doubt that Iran has had nuclear ambitions and tried to cover them up. Despite recent Iranian promises of openness to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), designed to forestall sanctions, Iran's potential nuclear capability remains considerable.

Yet Bush made no threat of a US invasion of Iran in his speech, rather suggesting that reform and change should come from within: "The regime in Iran must heed the democratic demands of the Iranian people, or lose its last claim to legitimacy."

A few days before, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage had assured US senators that regime change in Iran is not US policy. But, said Mr. Armitage, the US would be "very forthright in our views about transparency and governance and human rights."

Experts I've talked to suggest that Iran is not currently in a prerevolutionary mode. Offending newspapers and dissidents feel the brunt of the regime's apparatus of repression. But recent student demonstrations have abated. And while there is substantial discontent (12 to 15 percent of the population "officially" unemployed, but actually perhaps nearer 20 percent), the public seems leery of violent upheaval, instead hoping for peaceful evolution through constitutional means.

Against this background at home, the Iranian regime seems willing to engage in dialogue with the US, while taking pragmatic steps to stave off confrontation with the IAEA, and the European Union, both of which took a tough stand on disclosure and inspection of Iran's nuclear facilities.

While the awesome might of the American military remains evident, the George Bush the British are seeing this week is embarked on a new "forward strategy" that involves far less militancy.

• John Hughes, editor and chief operating officer of the Deseret Morning News, is a former editor of the Monitor.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: ageofliberty; ageoflibertyspeech; allianceofvalues; bush43; freedom; nationalsecurity; prosperity; specialrelationship; threepillars; threepillarsofpeace; ukvisit
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To: Monti Cello
I'm saying the obvious - we overthrew the government of Iraq and are imposing a new government. The Iraqis didn't do it themselves.
61 posted on 11/19/2003 11:23:08 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
So America will continue to pursue the Machiavellian defense of its national interests because that's the best policy available to it - or any other nation.

You're right, LL -- it's all about defending our national interests, not about some high-minded ideal of liberation of the world's oppressed peoples. But if the latter is a consequence of the former, then why not (publicly) emphasize the latter?

And you're also right about the imposition of democracy on cultures other than advanced, westernized ones (like Japan and Germany after WW2) being a very chancy biz (at best), and one that we'd be hard-pressed to find successful examples of.

But we have no options at this point other than the course we're pusuing, the way I see it. War has been declared on us not merely by a bunch of cultish lunatics, but by whole (Islamist) nations that have long been complicit with them.

62 posted on 11/19/2003 11:26:20 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: dirtboy; liberallarry
And the list adds up...another 150 mil or so in the Africa democracies, some of which are more "open" others (e.g. Benin, De, Rep. of Congo, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana, guinea, Nigeria)...for more stats see...

http://www.iiie.net/Intl/PopStats.html

63 posted on 11/19/2003 11:28:37 AM PST by Axolotl
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To: dirtboy
544 million. True. But...

Bangladesh is a democracy? That's a real snorter. Indonesia - marginally so. Russia is a democracy? Gahhh.... Malaysia...Mahathir Muhammed?

Well, we're down to what? 300 million? Snort, snort.

64 posted on 11/19/2003 11:31:10 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: Axolotl
Egypt? Nigeria?
65 posted on 11/19/2003 11:32:57 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
All the countries mentioned have elections at least, it is somtetimes tough to tell....here is a tool that helps though...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_gov_typ

66 posted on 11/19/2003 11:35:58 AM PST by Axolotl
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To: Mr. Mojo
Agree 110%!

I'll go even farther. If we're successfull in creating democratic capitalism in these countries we will have defended our national interest in absolutely the best and most effective way.

Better have a back-up plan, though, in case we aren't successfull. :)

67 posted on 11/19/2003 11:37:28 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
The point is the Bush statement is probably true, though it would take some real homework for me to show it...it is certainly true that you cannot laugh it off as you did.
68 posted on 11/19/2003 11:39:19 AM PST by Axolotl
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To: Axolotl
... it is somtetimes tough to tell

You get this year's award for master of understatement...or perhaps for subtle humor. :)

69 posted on 11/19/2003 11:39:44 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: Axolotl
....it is certainly true that you cannot laugh it off as you did

Oh yes I can.

But you do me an injustice. Bush's numbers may have been wrong, and his English tortured, but I back him 100% in his effort. I think we must do what we are doing.

70 posted on 11/19/2003 11:42:43 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
I meant it it tough to classify them scrolling on the net. You laugh off Nigeria for example, but it has a House and a Senate, and generally groups with countries like Turkey in terms of civil liberties.
71 posted on 11/19/2003 11:45:45 AM PST by Axolotl
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To: MoJo2001
This foolishness will truly stop when Europe experiences their [sic ] own 9/11.

God allowed Hiroshima to be utterly destroyed. He could allow the same thing to happen to Paris.

Think what the French reaction would be to watching Paris engulfed in a nuclear firestorm, laid waste, with millions dead. Farfetched, but it could happen.

72 posted on 11/19/2003 11:46:57 AM PST by paulklenk (DEPORT HILLARY!)
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To: liberallarry
Laugh it off then, but it might be you rather than Bush who is "misunderinformed"...
73 posted on 11/19/2003 11:48:52 AM PST by Axolotl
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To: Axolotl
...but it has a House and a Senate

Imperial Rome had a Senate. So did Nazi Germany and Communist Russia...and many similar democracies. Please...I had enough comedy for one thread.

74 posted on 11/19/2003 11:57:42 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: Axolotl
Nigeria for example, but it has a House and a Senate

Nigeria is only 50% Muslim, so I wouldn't categorize them with countries that have nearly 100% Muslim populations. Fact is, democracy in the Muslim world is pretty much non-existent.

75 posted on 11/19/2003 12:02:04 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: liberallarry
You miss my point (perhaps I made it badly)...it is tough to tell from web pages etc. You ask dirtboy to come up with 650 million muslims and he comes damn close without much effort. Nigeria was once the prime example of African democracy, but was in and out of military dictatorship during the 90s...the most recent elections, a few years back, were generally thought to be open, with the election of a former prisoner of the earlier military rule.

Why don't you spend a little time refuting Bush's statement, since you obviously think it will be pretty easy to do.

76 posted on 11/19/2003 12:08:12 PM PST by Axolotl
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To: Mr. Mojo
We discussed this point earlier. The bone of contention was Bush's statement that a majority of muslims live in democratic societies, not that the majority of muslim dominated countries are democratic.
77 posted on 11/19/2003 12:10:27 PM PST by Axolotl
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To: Axolotl
Didn't you see my reply to dirboy's numbers?

You have to stretch the meaning of democracy to absurdity to come up with anything more than about 300 million Muslims living under democractic conditions...and a good portion of those are living as minorities in non-Muslim societies.

78 posted on 11/19/2003 12:17:10 PM PST by liberallarry
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To: Axolotl
The bone of contention was Bush's statement that a majority of muslims live in democratic societies

I see. Well, considering that the world's Muslim population is around 1.2 billion, the Prez is then saying at at least 1.1 billion Muslims live in democratic societies. Those #'s sound awfully high to me. I'll have research it further.

79 posted on 11/19/2003 12:17:45 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Mr. Mojo
If the population is 1.2 bil, then significantly less than 1.1 bil would be a majority
80 posted on 11/19/2003 12:19:23 PM PST by Axolotl
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