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Protests begin but majority backs Bush visit as support for war surges
The Guardian ^ | Tuesday November 18, 2003 | Alan Travis and David Gow

Posted on 11/18/2003 6:27:17 AM PST by .cnI redruM

See the ICM poll in full (pdf) (My next post)

A majority of Labour voters welcome President George Bush's state visit to Britain which starts today, according to November's Guardian/ICM opinion poll.

The survey shows that public opinion in Britain is overwhelmingly pro-American with 62% of voters believing that the US is "generally speaking a force for good, not evil, in the world". It explodes the conventional political wisdom at Westminster that Mr Bush's visit will prove damaging to Tony Blair. Only 15% of British voters agree with the idea that America is the "evil empire" in the world.

Mr Blair insisted last night that he had made the right decision in inviting Mr Bush to Britain as an unprecedented security operation got under way to prepare for his arrival today. More than 14,000 police officers at a cost of £5m will be on duty during the four-day visit, with tens of thousands of anti-war protesters expected to take to the streets.

The ICM poll also uncovers a surge in pro-war sentiment in the past two months as suicide bombers have stepped up their attacks on western targets and troops in Iraq. Opposition to the war has slumped by 12 points since September to only 41% of all voters. At the same time those who believe the war was justified has jumped 9 points to 47% of voters.

This swing in the mood of British voters is echoed in the poll's finding that two-thirds of voters believe British and American troops should not pull out of Iraq now but instead stay until the situation is "more stable".

It also may explain the beginnings of a recovery in Tony Blair's personal ratings in this month's Guardian poll. He still remains an unpopular prime minister with 52% unhappy with the job he is doing, compared with 40% who say they are satisfied with his performance. But the prime minister's net popularity rating of minus 12 points is a significant improvement over last month's net rating of minus 18 points.

The detailed results of the poll show that more people - 43% - say they welcome George Bush's arrival in Britain than the 36% who say they would prefer he did not come.

Labour voters are more enthusiastic about the visit than Tory voters. But it is only Liberal Democrats who are marginally more unhappy about his arrival, with 43% against and 39% willing to welcome him. A majority of "twentysomethings" welcome Mr Bush. Hostility is strongest amongst the over-65s. There is a clear gender gap in attitudes with a majority of men - 51% - welcoming the president's arrival, compared with only 35% of women.

Pro-Americanism, as might be expected, is strongest among Tory voters with 71% saying the US is a force for good. But it is nearly matched by the 66% of Labour voters who say the US is a force for good. Anti-Americanism is strongest among Liberal Democrat voters but is still only shared by 24% of them and the majority see the US as the "good guys".

Mr Blair told the CBI national conference in Birmingham yesterday of his support for the war on terrorism, saying: "Now is not the time to waver but see it through."

In unscripted remarks, he said the weekend terrorist bombings in Turkey, the recent attacks in Saudi Arabia and continuing bombings in Iraq, meant Britain should "stand firm with the United States of America in defeating terrorism wherever it is and delivering us safely from what I genuinely believe is the security threat of the 21st century".

But Mr Blair made plain he completely backed the EU's stance against the US over illegal tariffs on steel imports, insisting that Washington must now respond to the World Trade Organisation ruling: "There will be from time to time these disagreements on issues to do with trade and we must stick very firmly to our position."

The prime minister also reaffirmed his vision of Britain as a bridge between the US and Europe.

"I firmly believe we have two big foreign policy pillars, the US alliance and our position in the EU. There's absolutely no reason to yield up either and we will not," he said to loud applause.

· ICM interviewed a random sample of 1,002 adults aged 18 and over by telephone between November 14-16, 2003. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: antiwar; bush43; bushvisit; statevisit; uk; ukvisit
Again, the anti-war movement overplays its hand. If these guys would content themselves with arguing that they believed Bush had made a poor decision by invading Iraq, they would probably be a majority in the UK and a strong minority in the US.

Instead, they cast the whole thing as a cosmic battle against the maniacal BeelzaBush. Like the anti-war pukathon in San Francisco, these guys just look stupid.

1 posted on 11/18/2003 6:27:17 AM PST by .cnI redruM
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To: .cnI redruM
Here's the actual numbers from The Guardian poll.


http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Politics/documents/2003/11/17/1711icm.pdf
2 posted on 11/18/2003 6:30:02 AM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: .cnI redruM
"If these guys would content themselves with arguing that they believed Bush had made a poor decision..."

They are doing what they know how to do.

They are trying to repeat their victories of the sixties...note yesterday "a grandmother" was arrested in London for her protests, doing what she learned when we were kids.

Sadly, from what we've seen with ELF and others,if they changed tactics it would probably be a return to property destruction and violence rather than reasoned (or other) argument.

3 posted on 11/18/2003 6:43:00 AM PST by norton
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To: .cnI redruM
It has been reported, and its no surprise, that a large number of the expected protestors are not from England but are being brought in from other european countries like France and Germany!
4 posted on 11/18/2003 6:44:44 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: .cnI redruM
Please say a prayer for President Bush. The leftist gargoyles are out in full force. I spent some time on EU forums trying to share opinions with our EU friends. I find dozens of US liberals egging them on in contempt for Pres. Bush. It is almost scary.
5 posted on 11/18/2003 6:51:10 AM PST by mgist
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To: Phantom Lord
Why doesn't that shock me? Lefties haven't changed. In their demented world, The Berlin Wall fell because of a structural engineering defect.
6 posted on 11/18/2003 6:53:05 AM PST by .cnI redruM ('Bread and Circuses' ...Fun until you run out of dough.)
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To: .cnI redruM
The survey shows that public opinion in Britain is overwhelmingly pro-American with 62% of voters believing that the US is "generally speaking a force for good, not evil, in the world". It explodes the conventional political wisdom at Westminster that Mr Bush's visit will prove damaging to Tony Blair. Only 15% of British voters agree with the idea that America is the "evil empire" in the world.

We sure dont hear this view often in the Us media.. 15% still think America is an evil empire..i bet that % is higher here in the USA among liberals.

7 posted on 11/18/2003 7:07:33 AM PST by No Blue States
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To: No Blue States
WE NEED YOUR HELP! Please call your Rep TODAY

Legion Opposes OMB on VA Funding


WASHINGTON, November 14, 2003  -  The morning after President George W. Bush delivered his Veterans Day message at Arlington National Cemetery, the administration’s Office of Management and Budget – in writing – opposed an additional $1.3 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs health care budget and reiterated its call to charge many veterans seeking treatment at VA a $250 annual enrollment fee and to raise the pharmacy co-payment from $7 to $15.

“A veteran is a veteran,” American Legion National Commander John Brieden said. “The law was changed in the ‘90s to allow all veterans to seek treatment at VA. Although OMB is willing to wield the budget to repel veterans from seeking treatment at VA, the men and women of The American Legion as well as Republicans and Democrats in Congress remain determined not to let that happen.”

Brieden made the Legion’s case to Congress perfectly clear Sept. 16 when he testified here before a joint hearing session of House and Senate committees on Veterans’ Affairs. Simply put: Health care for veterans is the delayed cost of war. Therefore,
if Congress can meet the president’s request for an additional $87 billion to fund the ongoing war in Iraq, then Congress also can raise an additional $1.8 billion next year, and a $3 billion increase the following year, to meet the health care needs of veterans.


A blueprint passed by the House in April called for a Legion-backed $27.1 billion for the system, but in July the House approved an appropriations bill that called for $25.3 billion. Therein lies the $1.8 billion spending gap that the Legion, the nation’s largest veterans organization, is fighting alongside other veterans groups to close. As the spending bill for VA-HUD and Independent Agencies makes its way through the Senate, an amendment offered by Sen. Christopher Bond of Missouri -- an amendment that has bipartisan support -- could fill the chasm by $1.5 billion. Congress is also poised to remove the Senate Appropriations Committee’s “emergency” designation from $1.3 billion targeted for VA health care, and to send the entire increase directly to VA.

How badly does VA need the money? The American Legion’s “I Am Not A Number” survey in May identified scores of the more than 200,000 veterans who had been waiting from six months to two years for their initial primary-care appointments at VA. Recent news media accounts noted veterans of the ongoing war on terror also having trouble accessing the system. Although VA reports tremendous recent success in whittling down the backlog, about 164,000 veterans in the lowest of VA’s eight priority-treatment groups have been suspended from enrolling in the VA health care system since January because VA lacks the resources to serve all of the veterans who are lawfully eligible for treatment.

The American Legion is fighting to switch the VA health care budget from discretionary funding, which Congress must approve each fiscal year, to mandatory funding, just like Social Security and Medicare, whereby federal dollars are allocated by a formula to meet the system’s demands. The nation’s largest veterans organization also wants to end the restriction that keeps veterans from using their Medicare benefits to pay for treatment at VA.

Read the entire Statement of Administration Policy:

Download Statement (PDF file)




8 posted on 11/18/2003 7:29:34 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, dont waive your rights!)
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To: .cnI redruM
These poll results flatly contradict - by a wide margin - the results of a poll I saw on Fox last night, which showed overwhelming anti-Bush sentiment. I'd like to think this poll is the correct one, but I have my doubts.
9 posted on 11/18/2003 7:59:04 AM PST by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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