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To: em2vn; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; ...
Another hatefilled anti-WalMart screed can be found at http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3044wal-mart.html

I'd like my fellow Catholics to sort out the issues and help me relate the actual facts to Catholic doctrine, especially as set forth in Rerum Novarum.

71 posted on 11/14/2003 9:47:08 PM PST by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: narses
The free market is a means, not an end. When it becomes an end in itself, it becomes a false god. As a means, it must be used to serve a good end -- something higher than a ruthlessly "efficient" allocator of goods and capital. The duty to form and employ a functioning conscience cannot be subcontracted to an amoral mechanism capable only of determining the market-clearing price but not capable of telling you what it means or whether you should care.
72 posted on 11/14/2003 9:57:36 PM PST by Romulus (Nothing really good ever happened after 1789.)
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To: narses
I do not know how it relates to Catholic doctrine. I do not care for the bottom-line mentality of most economic conservatives. I try to avoid buying goods from China, Walmart and Disney. I have asked my extended family to respect that when buying gifts for my four daughters.

I basically believe in the free market but the rootlessness that has been caused by such dubious progress has uglified the land, put strains on families and has put a tremendous burden on the middle class which really is the backbone of any great nation. Even Aristotle knew that.
111 posted on 11/16/2003 2:47:11 PM PST by TradicalRC (While the wicked stand confounded, Call me, with thy saints surrounded. -The Boondock Saints)
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To: narses
Capitalism will reach a breaking point, just as did socialism. With the destruction of the medieval guild-artisan economy and the duty-based feudal system that created it, labor became a commodity — and in a world of six billion people the commodity price of labor inexorably trends toward zero. This trend is accelerated by the ever-growing sophistication of automatic manufacturing and service systems, which offer the ultimate in low-wage labor — mechanical "slave" labor. Thanks to the ever-cheapening price of labor, there will in time be no opportunity for employment left in the United States: all manufacturing jobs will be done by electronic/mechanical "slave labor", or by disposable Third World workers cheaper (in terms of money) than robots. All knowledge jobs (banking, accounting, customer service, sales, etc.) will be similarly outsourced to developing nations or performed by electronics. In the end, only those with skills that cannot be automated or slave-labored away (artists, musicians, inventors, performers, etc.) or professional service providers who have organized to create legal monopolies for their services (physicians, dentists, lawyers, etc.) will have the opportunity to work. Everyone else's job will be done by a robot, or by a "bio-robot" from some reeking hellhole.

From now on, no matter how many new "jobs" are created, it will always be cheaper to have a robot or a Third World quasi-slave do them; the days of working for a living are drawing to a close.

With the end of employment, the so-called capitalist system (i.e. that economic system in which the majority of people own no property, and instead receive wages in exchange for their labor) will fall. The elimination of high-paying wage labor will destroy the middle classes. As the production of goods and essential services becomes more and more automated/slave-laborized, the social strata will undergo a tectonic shift. In time, the post-capitalist world will come into being: a top class consisting of creative types, professionals, and those who own and control the robots (both electronic and biological) that turn raw materials into wealth — and a vast mob on the bottom consisting of everyone else. (A third class – Soldiers — will exist to protect the Top Class from the Bottom Class, at least until the Top Class figures out how to neutralize the threat from the Bottom by drugs, electronic mind control, or some form of eco-friendly mass murder. At that point the Soldier Class will either overthrow the effete Top Class and assume their position (a la Zardoz), or will be disposed of by the Top Class via whatever means the Bottoms were eliminated.)

The X factor in this equation is human nature. People are not simply going to sit and starve. All is well as long as the masses have some form of income (either from the dole or from subsistence labor) and can buy the cheap consumer products they need to tranquilize themselves. Once this cycle is interrupted, however, watch out! Absent some foolproof form of mind control, the nascent Bottom Class will revolt long before the Tops have the means to dispose of them. At that point the Bottoms will most likely seize the means of production and institute some form of bleak Gunpoint Socialism. The end of civilization as we know it would follow in short order, as squabbling warlords began to fight over pieces of an ever-shrinking pie. The human race would survive, but only after God knows how many years of brutal warfare — first with nukes, then with bombs and machine guns, then swords, then bows and arrows. In time, only tribes of hunter-gatherers would remain among the heaps of rotting circuitry and rusting cars.

Or not. Perhaps God will once again bring forth a Great Man, a Charlemagne, a man of will and ferocity tempered by an ironclad devotion to the Cross, a great king that will remake the world by force of will and his sword arm, and institute by decree a new global feudalism — a new holy empire. This man might in time decree some sort of steady-state economy where te ownership of the wealth-producing machines is vested in the Crown, and where the levels of technology and wealth are frozen at some arbitrary point for everyone in the world. The meek shall then inherit the Earth: with everyone provided for at a reasonable level by the magic machines, those whose ambition, creativity, and desires transcend the norms decreed by the Sovereign will become exiles, leaving Earth behind to build their own fortunes among the stars.

Or perhaps the Lord will return before either eventuality comes to pass.

That's how I see it. I am almost certainly wrong about it all. But one thing is certain: neither capitalism nor socialism will be the final economic state of mankind on this finite, fecund Earth.

As always, God's will be done.

146 posted on 11/17/2003 5:02:37 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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