BIRTHS AND DEATHS (David Frum: Pro-abortion)

National Review On-Line ^ | 11/6/2003 | David Frum

[JohnGalt]

David Frum NOV. 6, 2003: BIRTHS AND DEATHS Partial Birth

Now let me say right off: I am not pro-life. I think abortion ought to be legal for the first 12 weeks of a pregnancy and available to protect the health of the mother during the weeks thereafter. I don’t see this as a matter of fundamental human rights, so much as one of accommodating reality. I can’t defend Roe v. Wade as a legal decision, and I would be very glad to see abortion become much more rare than it now, but if the law attempts to suppress abortion entirely, it is the law that will fail, rather than abortion that will disappear. Please don’t email me about this: I have thought about this issue just as hard as you have, and I’m not going to change my mind.

But precisely because I believe in accommodating the realities of abortion, I think those on the pro-abortion side need to acknowledge that the no-concessions approach of the organized abortion lobby is catastrophically mistaken. Abortion rights would be much more secure if they were confined within reasonable limits that squared better with the conscience of the nation.

For that reason, I for one welcome the ban on partial-birth abortion – not only because of the grisliness of the procedure, but even more for exactly the reason that so offends the procedure’s defenders: precisely because it is a way to back into greater restrictions on abortion in the later stages of pregnancy. NOW and NARAL should understand: These restrictions are not the first steps toward a total ban on abortion. On the contrary: They are the first steps toward avoiding such a ban.

[JohnGalt]

What a phony.

[JohnGalt]

*ping*

[Question_Assumptions]

Please don't email me about this: I have thought about this issue just as hard as you have, and I'm not going to change my mind.

If this idiot won't give me others the courtesy of listening to them and think he knows it all, then I have no interest in listening to him. A conversation is a two-way street. If I want to be lectured by know-it-alls, I'd be a leftist. I'm annoyed enough about the tone of this article that I'm considering cancelling my National Review subscription.

[Question_Assumptions]

"me others" = "me or others"

[billbears]

I have thought about this issue just as hard as you have, and I’m not going to change my mind.

Of course you're not David. You're not conservative about anything else, why stop at killing the unborn?

[Question_Assumptions]

Ugh. Forget it. I'm too annoyed to write correctly. Does anyone have an email address for the National Review subscription department handy?

[JohnGalt]

FYI, Frum is rumored to be next in line to run NR. Me thinks one way or the other, good friend, you will be canceling your subscription.

[JohnGalt]

I'd almost like to forgive him since this is a blog piece not a published article, but look how he recycles the same old Clinton cliche: "become much more rare than it [is] now."

[RebelBanker]

The one statement I can definitely agree with is:

...but if the law attempts to suppress abortion entirely, it is the law that will fail, rather than abortion that will disappear.

To rephrase that, any attempt to legislate morality will fail unless the authorities are willing to use really draconian enforcement methods. The way to stop abortion is to convince women who are considering one that it is simply wrong.

[JohnGalt]

I think you are falling for too much of the current rhetoric, if I may respectfully be critical and in general concurrence of your tag-line.

First, abortion is murder. That fact exists independent of societal norms if you are a conservative. Frum's piece essentially is arguing that abortion should just not be talked about. This is hardly a conservative position and really is a surrender to the cultural leftists definitions on the bounds of reasonable debate.

Now, a conservative of course could disagree on the means of restricting a procedure in a large vast country that is neither Christian or conservative, but that does not change the fact that abortion is murder.

[Reagan Man]

Now let me say right off: I am not pro-life.

It's hard for those of us who respect human life to understand, how anyone can view abortion for what it really is. The end of a human life. That may sound simplistic to some, but this is the most black and white issue of all time and it remains a black mark in the history of mankind.

[ken5050]

Frum's position, and similar thoughts from amny conservatives, ( not myself, I might add) stem from an attempt to analyze where the successes of the pro-life movement might lead...lead me try to concisely state them..to stimulate discussion...

assume, miracle of miracles..(g) that W. gets his SC nominees confirmed..and that at some time in the future Roe is overturned....all conservatives agree that the matter should and will, go back to the states..so you will have some states..Cal, NY, Mass..allowing it,possibly only in the first trimester..many states banning it totally....the question is if a woman from a 100% ban state ( say, eg.g Texas) travels to Cal to obtain an abortion...can her home state indict her when she returns....?

[RebelBanker]

J.G.

I agree with your central tenet: Abortion is murder.

That being said, I do not believe that there are enough people who agree with us on that point to successfully outlaw it. Perhaps I am being too pessimistic.

However, my point was that we must convince more people (especially those most vulnerable to the lure of a 'quick fix' to an unwanted pregnancy) that abortion is in fact murder. If we can not do that, it is all but impossible to move in the direction we desire.

Your Humble Servant...

[mr_snoopy]

Hmmm...this is a good example of the difference between American conservatives and all other conservatives. Canadian conservatives already accept things (e.g. the inevitability of unlimited abortion on demand) that American conservatives don't accept.

[JohnGalt]

We were in complete agreement, then.

I would suggest that if we are to get past the stalemate of "pro-life" and "pro-choice", we need to turn our rhetoric on the 20,000,000 women living amongst us, voting, holding positions of powers...who have contracted to murder their own children. By only focusing on the "victims", we fail to address the culture war issues that spill into other areas of our life.

[Okies love Dubya 2]

Thanks for posting this, as disgusting as it may be. It makes me feel more nauseous than I already am.

I would love for Mr. Frum to tell me to my face that the baby I am carrying is disposable. I am only 8 weeks pregnant, but this child is as much a part of our family as our other two children. If I were to (heaven forbid) lose this baby tomorrow, I would be beyond grief. He/she already has a beating heart, arms, legs, a face. If he doesn't believe it, he can ask me after I hear the baby's heartbeat for the first time this Friday what that noise was on the machine. It is the sound of a human life, not some inconvenience or piece of tissue. Even if this child is not perfect, he/she is still ours and we will love him/her with everything we give our 5 year old and 14 month old children.

Sorry for the rant, I am a little hormonal and a little protective when it comes to people who think that what I am carrying is not a person and that it can just be disposed of like garbage.

[St.Chuck]

But precisely because I believe in accommodating the realities of abortion, I think those on the pro-abortion side need to acknowledge that the no-concessions approach of the organized abortion lobby is catastrophically mistaken.

I'm glad that Frum acknowleges yet another detour off the traditional conservative path. It is important to know exactly what he and the thinking he represents would look like if realized in policy and law. I'm thinking that Frum is no conservative at all.

[JohnGalt]

Perhaps he can be categorized as a Vichy Conservative. He has surrendered and is thinking how best to accommodate his new masters.

Yours in liberty,

[Search4Truth]

"The way to stop abortion murder is to convince women people who are considering one that it is simply wrong."

Abortion is the murder of the most innocent and defenseless. There is a shame upon American women for this slaughter, and on American men for allowing it..

I fear there will be a great price to pay for these abominable acts. And that we may be beyond redemption. A country can not kill in this way, and survive.