The Hydrogen Hallucination

Solar Acess ^ | 11/10/03 | Mark Sardella

[sd-joe]

Hydrogen works great as a fuel for Nuclear Fusion.

[RushingWater]

He's not just saying we can't do it now, but that it can never be done.

Not the visionary I would like to hire for my research lab.

[BlueString]

A simple solution to the transportation problem IMO would be electrolysis. Instead of transporting hydrogen you transport water, then by way of electricity from a nuclear power plant, the water would be broken down--at an electrolysis station either in your garage or at a fueling station--into hydrogen and oxygen. Bam there's your fuel.

Gasoline is upwards of $1.50 per gallon. This way you'd have to pay the nickel or dime for a gallon(s) of water, and I doubt it would cost much more than a dollar for the electricity to free the hydrogen from it.

[knarf]

"Gasoline is upwards of $1.50 per gallon. This way you'd have to pay the nickel or dime for a gallon(s) of water, and I doubt it would cost much more than a dollar for the electricity to free the hydrogen from it."

Non-scientific agreement.

I remember the 7th grade experiment in science class ... didn't take long for the tubes to go two to one.

[RandallFlagg]

I remember that as well. I was always curious, what is produced when hydrogen ignites? Helium?

[ml/nj]

Not the visionary I would like to hire for my research lab.

Reality sucks, doesn't it?

Maybe you should hire a chemist from Greenpeace?

ML/NJ

[tkathy]

There are many vehicles doing just fine right now with hydrogen fuel. A lot of negative emotional nonsense here.

[bryanbig]

Water. H combines with O

[RushingWater]

Check out this hallucination!

[SAJ]

The combustion of hydrogen in oxygen yields water.

Helium can be produced from hydrogen only through the process of fusion.

[samtheman]

This is a very clear explanation of the difference between an energy source and an energy carrier.

[Cicero]

Same point I've made before. You can only get hydrogen fuel through various processes that break water apart. The First Law of Thermodynamics says you can't get more energy out than you put in. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says you can never quite break even. So, as he says, hydrogen will never be an energy SOURCE, only an energy STORE--and probably not the best or safest store at that.

Hydrogen fuel cells could work tomorrow IF we develop another workable energy source, namely nuclear power. That would instantly solve the problem--it's the only feasible source of power that doesn't use fossil fuel for the foreseeable future. But the greens and the politicians will never allow it.

So hydrogen fuel cells are nothing but an expensive political boondoggle, as any decent scientist well understands. But the scientists working in the field also understand that billions of federal dollars are lining up to fall into their pockets. So who can blame them for agreeing to go along with this three-card-monte trick?

[SAJ]

No ones says that H2 cannot be used to power a vehicle, merely that it is an unbelievably inefficient power source...or, rather, as the author put it very well, energy carrier, not source.

[hopespringseternal]

and I doubt it would cost much more than a dollar for the electricity to free the hydrogen from it.

Do the math. That's quite an assumption you are making there.

Or you could just read the article.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Well...another way to look at this would be to burn large quantities of low sulfur coal at a central power facility and pipe the energy to where its needed via electric lines.

[hopespringseternal]

Hydrogen fuel cells could work tomorrow IF we develop another workable energy source, namely nuclear power.

The best way to accomplish that would be to shoot all the wacko environmentalists into the sun.

[BlueString]

I don't see why since you can do it with a $.55 battery.

But maybe you're right.

[Fudd]

I'll say it again. The most efficient method of storing and transporting hydrogen energy is to chemically bond the hydrogen to carbon atoms, forming ethane, methane, propane, octane. Coal, oil, and gas.

[expatpat]

You are right. Free Hydrogen in any quantity needs to be stored at high-pressure, in a heavy metal container to hold the pressure.

I'll bet if we had started with a hydrogen economy, everyone would be trying to develop a nice liquid form (like gasoline or diesel) so it could be carried more efficiently and safely.