Bigger, faster new Prius hybrid's pretty slick (But, a new battery is $4,000??)

usa today ^ | 11-9-03 | jim healy

[steppenwolffe]

Toyota's 2004 Prius gas-electric hybrid sedan, on sale since late October at some dealerships and coming soon to others, has more room than the previous-generation Prius, more features, better fuel economy, more power

[steppenwolffe]

I'll probably stick with my truck.

[chance33_98]

Sticking with my SUV and Mini-Van.

[dhuffman@awod.com]

Sticking with my two VW TDIs and my FAFE (family average fuel economy a-la CAFE) is over 50 mpg, even with occasional forays to 100 mph.

I love the cars but condemn the stealerships.

[dhuffman@awod.com]

Glancing back over the article I missed the historical 80 mpg figures. I hope that I am not the only rememberer of these lies.

[dogbyte12]

It's a car for a purpose. If you commute back and forth from the burbs to downtown 40 miles each way every day, it's going to end up pretty much breaking even in cost.

There is something to not having to fill up so often though if you take long car trips. Being able to go 48 mpg with an 11.9 gallon tank means 571 miles, or basically San Diego to San Francisco without having to stop.

What is the price you put on it? Right now, my wife needs a refill every 3 days for her 80 mile daily commute. Since I gas up and service the cars, it would be nice to be able to just gas up every Sunday morning, and forget about it.

[ridesthemiles]

I'll probably stick with my truck.

My first question:How many horse trailer can I safely tow? I have to go over Donner Pass regularly.

[RandallFlagg]

If ya turn the radio, the car slows down and the headlights dim?? Wouldn't suprise me.

[Hebrews 11:6]

I drove an '03 rental for 130 miles this week. It's OK, but it lacked pickup--absolutely no kick in the pants, which of course can be useful when merging onto freeways, etc. Hope the new version solved that--if so, it's a good car.

[billhilly]

" I have to go over Donner Pass regularly."

Have you considered a catepillar? #;^D

[Skibane]

Keep in mind that the reported 48 MPG was achived while throughly flogging it. Shouldn't be much trouble to get 55 MPG or so with more conventional driving techniques.

One neat feature not mentioned above is that the air conditioner (standard equipment, BTW) is all-electric. The compressor is driven by a 3-phase AC electric motor, eliminating any direct mechanical link to the engine (and also allowing the A/C to run for brief periods with the engine turned off). Aside from offering some potential fuel economy improvements, this also holds promise for making the AC considerably more reliable (no leak-prone compressor shaft seals or vibration-isolating rubber hoses). it's an automotive first, but most vehicles will have it eventually.

Overall, the new Prius is a stunning piece of engineering, at least on paper. Next, Toyota will be pushing hybrid technology as a means of further improving the performance of vehicles that are already no slouches in the performacne department ("V8 performance, 4 cylinder economy , 6 cylinder engine"). Should make for an interesting couple of years for car-watchers.

[cruiserman]

I saw one in the local dealer lot while going to get some parts. It was uglier than the first model, kind of like that horrible Pontiac thing. Aztek?

[doug from upland]

Next year, Lexus will have a hybrid SUV that gets 35 MPG. It will not give up anything in power. I don't know, however, when it will be available to the public.

[Hank Rearden]

How am I going to lash my two 19-foot kayaks to the roof?

[Clinging Bitterly]

>> pushing hybrid technology as a means of further improving the performance of vehicles that are already no slouches in the performacne department ("V8 performance, 4 cylinder economy , 6 cylinder engine"). Should make for an interesting couple of years for car-watchers.

I agree. The technology is going to get better, and the market will benefit from it when these things get produced in some volume. I don't care for the looks of the Prius, or whatever it's called, and the mileage isn't all that spectacular, and I'm not going to rush right out and buy one.

Right now my daily driver is a monstrous old Suburban. 454, something like 375 HP, and about 10 miles per gallon. It's kind of old and ugly, but it's paid for and it gets me there, along with whomever and whatever I want to bring along.

When there is a hybrid or electric truck type vehicle like this, I'll be looking at it real close. But the last new vehicle I bought was 20 years ago, and I'm still using it. When I bought it I didn't have any doubts it would last that long. I'll need to have the same confidence in the next new one.

Dave in Eugene

[VOA]

• Battery. You'll have to replace it, probably after the eight-year, 100,000-mile
warranty expires. Today, that'd cost you $4,000. By the time you need to worry about
it, Toyota insists, it'll be down to $1,000.

It might be an gamble, but Toyota should supply a TRANSFERRABLE certificate to
the buyer promising to supply the next battery for $1,000, no questions asked.

That might seal the deal for some skeptics.

[Skibane]

When there is a hybrid or electric truck type vehicle like this, I'll be looking at it real close.

GM has a hybrid Silverado out, although it's currently only being sold to fleet customers. The fuel economy improvement isn't particularly impressive (12 percent max).

[Clinging Bitterly]

>> GM has a hybrid Silverado out, although it's currently only being sold to fleet customers. The fuel economy improvement isn't particularly impressive (12 percent max).

And that's the deal with the Prius too. With, what, a 67 HP engine, and it's delivering 67HP performance. And a conventional car with that kind of power could easily deliver the stated 55 MPG. Yeah, I'm not keen on buying all that extra hardware to get the same, or not much better, mileage than I would otherwise get.

It's how that power is getting to the wheels that is the interesting thing about it, the electric motor. Without the engine or the batteries, with a different single energy source to power the motor, the motor could be made larger and more powerful. The next advance is going to have to be in that direction, to electric generation on demand in real time, probably hydrogen powered.

But in the meantime I think it's good that the market seems to be embracing this - it's a step in the right direction. The cost-benefit ratio isn't quite there, and long term reiliability is probably uncertain, but becoming a viable market segment will push at those negatives.

The early adapters will subsidize this development, as they do all new technologies. I don't have 20 grand to plunk down for a 67 HP car, but I have paid a premium for "the latest thing" on a number of occasions. Some of the magical gadgetry provided years of service, others were turkeys. I have a 20 year old CD player that gets used every day. It hold one CD and does not have a remote control, and it's standard rack sized case is full of the electronics necessary to make it deliver a line output to the amp. Because I, and others, paid however many hundreds they cost at the time, and bought XT, 386, 486 and Pentuim computers when they were new, Microwave ovens, VCRs and so on, our standard of living is what it is.

And best of all, we didn't then, and don't now, need Al Gore and his fellow travelers to get here.

[gcruse]

I drove the 2003 version of the Prius. Never really got past the gee-whiz and startlingly different instrument panel. My cousin, the owner, swears by it. When the time came, though, I bought a Sebring. Not very adventurous, I guess.

[Axenolith]

Satan manages VW dealerships...

[Axenolith]

Aztek had to have been designed by Ford moles...