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To: BlackElk
1. If you think that the apostles were married while they were apostles, give us your answer to #236.
 

LOL! You know as well as I do that the scriptures do not name the wives of the apostles. What you evidently don't know though is that scripture does refer to at least some of the apostles having wives and that their wives traveled with them on missionary journeys.

1Co 9:5  Have we no right to lead about a wife that is a believer, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?  

If they weren't married while they were apostles, then whose wives were they leading around?

According to Clement of Alexandria in Stromata III (I haven't found an English translation, but here's what the Catholic Encyclopedia says), Peter's wife was the first of the two to suffer martyrdom. Eusebius' Historia Ecclesiastica III has this to say:

"They say, accordingly, that when the blessed Peter saw his own wife led out to die, he rejoiced because of her summons and her return home, and called to her very encouragingly and comfortingly, addressing her by name, and saying, `Oh thou, remember the Lord.' Such was the marriage of the blessed, and their perfect disposition toward those dearest to them."

Even the church fathers that you claim as your own recognized had no problem with the fact that Peter was married while an apostle and that his wife traveled with him!

2. The RCC does not allow democracy (or anarchy) in the pews to govern the Church. That is why we are still anti-abortiion, anti-divorce, and anti-birth control as all Christian chuirches were a century ago.

No one's talking about democracy leading the church. We're talking about the church following scriptures and the teachings of the early church fathers.

3. What you meant to say was that the RCC should be run by what YOU THINK are God's rules. YOPIOS is still YOPIOS: nothing more and nothing less. Every Tom, Dick and Harry serving as his own teaching magisterium really does not work now or ever.

I'm not talking about what I think are God's rules -- I'm talking about following the plain meaning of the scriptures and the teachings of the early church. If you read your Bible you'll find that the Jewish leaders of Jesus' time believed that only they could discern the meaning of scriptures. They even had their own traditions that they claimed were passed down orally from Moses. History repeats itself.

All I'm doing is pointing out that today's Magisterium conflicts with the early fathers. How can that be?

 

 

271 posted on 11/10/2003 3:22:31 AM PST by DallasMike
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To: DallasMike
You really ought to go evangelize those uncatechized enough to be susceptible. I am not interested in joining your methodology by inventing MOPIOS to correspond with YOPIOS. If the pope says so with sufficient formality, it is good enough for me. Some of our RCC scholars may wish to entertain you in a verse swapping match, I am just a street-fighting elk and have but one life to live and it WILL be lived as a Roman Catholic as best I can figure how. When you and I are gone and forgotten, the RCC will be standing solid to the end. It is guaranteed on the very Highest Authority.

The RCC claims the early Church Fathers with good reason. They were Catholic.

The Didache was in circulation early in the 2nd Century AD. New Testament Scripture was NOT in circulation until years after laborious writing and copying.

History does indeed repeat itself. Many disciples rejected Jesus Christ to His face when He told them they must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood to see God. They walked away, finding it a hard saying. Many still do.

289 posted on 11/10/2003 1:34:43 PM PST by BlackElk (The termitehood that is modernism is NOT Catholicism and neither is pseudo-"tradition")
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To: DallasMike; ninenot
You are also still confusing discipline with doctrine. If celibacy were doctrinal it would apply to the Eastern Rites and to the incoming former Anglican and Lutheran clergy. It is a discipline not a doctrine.
290 posted on 11/10/2003 1:36:27 PM PST by BlackElk (The termitehood that is modernism is NOT Catholicism and neither is pseudo-"tradition")
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