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Welcome to FR, & thanks for stopping by!

JennyP, even if I buy your assertion that lifeless atoms can self-organize in a way that allows them to “want very much” to survive…well, so what? That doesn’t tell me the first thing about getting to a transcendent moral “ought.” All it tells me is that something exists that previously didn’t. It doesn’t tell me why it exists or why it should not yell “Fire!” in a crowded block of molecules. Even bacteria self-organizes at the top of a slice of cheese.

A transcendent moral "ought", eh? You creationists are all alike: Closet monarchists! :-)

It's been a while, but looking back I think I argued reasonably well for the naturalistic basis for objective morality in 83 & 90.

Thanks for the welcome!

"I argued reasonably well for the naturalistic basis for objective morality in 83 & 90."

I have read your arguments, and they are thoughtful, understandable, reasonable, and practically unassailable, but the one thing they cannot be is objective.

Moral laws are like gravity - they exist whether we decide we like them or not. If 51% of us decided that we would rather not obey it, it wouldn't matter. If 100% of planet Earth voted to make a law out of the so-called Golden Rule then it would be wonderful, practical, historic, and it would prove that the state of Florida didn't handle the voting process, but it wouldn't be transcendent, because it would still be a popular vote from a group of self-serving points of view. If a man, let's call him Steinbrenner...no, wait, let's just call him Joe... if Joe decided that murder and pillage was the best way for both he and all of humanity to survive, then on what basis could you object? Birds fly, ice melts, stars burn, and humans steal. We are not in the business of making ethical demands of other "collections of atoms," so what would make Joe any different?

Try to think about that question. I think you'll find that you have to go outside of naturalism to find an answer for that one. I know you are wary of picking from the world's various faiths for guidance, but that is the only logical alternative.