Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Democrats ahead of Republicans on Open Source?
Linux Journal ^ | November 06, 2003 | Doc Searls

Posted on 11/06/2003 11:28:52 AM PST by antiRepublicrat

Is there any significance to what Web server/platform combinations 2004 presidential candidates are using?

As we swing into the thick of the 2004 electoral playoffs, it's interesting to see what kinds of platforms are running under the candidates' official campaign Web sites. Netcraft has a handy feature called "What's that site running?" that lets us see combinations of Web servers and OS platforms. So here's a quick rundown, in alphabetical order:

For what it's worth, the Republican National Committee is running Microsoft IIS on Windows 2000, while the Democratic National Committee is running Apache on Linux.

As of this writing, November 5, 2003, the RNC has an uptime of 4.26 days (maximum of 39.04) and a 90-day moving average of 16.91. The DNC has an uptime of 445.02 days (also the maximum) and a 90-day moving average of 395.38 days.

Draw your own conclusions.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; Technical
KEYWORDS: apache; candidate; democrat; linux; microsoft; president; republican; webserver; website
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200201-213 next last
To: antiRepublicrat
Experienced opinion, based on a long history of training and support of Windows users in many environments and even in a couple different countries. You don't know users, I do. So unless you know more than me, shut up.

It's attitudes like these ("... unless you know more than me, shut up...") that continues to make Mac users irrelevant and laughable. Whatever, Forrest. I'll continue to speak my mind. If you don't like it, too bad.

And for the last time, I could care less what your experience tells you: You don't speak for all users.
181 posted on 11/16/2003 6:54:09 PM PST by Bush2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
Yes you do. Most users in the world can read various open document formats. For the U.S., we don't want to get locked into the whims of one company, allowing that one company too much leverage over the government and the people. For international users, they don't want to be beholden to a U.S. company. They want to retain a bit of sovereignty.

And as TheEngineer pointed out, there are free readers available for reading the most popular document formats in the world -- plus, there is free software for generating those same formats. This is a case where standardization is good for everybody (consumers and business included). So your protests are limp-wristed, at best.
182 posted on 11/16/2003 6:56:06 PM PST by Bush2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
how can you undercut the cost of free software without giving away services for free?

Not too bright, are you? IBM ain't charging for the OS -- but it obviously is charging for its services. If Microsoft undercuts IBM, that means it's charging less for its services; in other words, it's competing. That isn't too difficult even for you to understand.
183 posted on 11/16/2003 6:58:20 PM PST by Bush2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 177 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
how can you undercut the cost of free software without giving away services for free?

Not too bright, are you? IBM ain't charging for the OS -- but it obviously is charging for its services. If Microsoft undercuts IBM, that means it's charging less for its services; in other words, it's competing. That isn't too difficult even for you to understand.
184 posted on 11/16/2003 6:58:21 PM PST by Bush2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 177 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
BTW Bush, this has really gotta hurt

Hardly. I've come to expect technology-challenged ivory tower academics to use Macs. These are the same guys that can't handle anything more than a one-button mouse. But very few businesses would entrust their enterprises to 'em. Even you, with your day job supporting PCs, have to admit that.
185 posted on 11/16/2003 7:03:46 PM PST by Bush2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 179 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
If you can't quit bringing up diversions, distractions and strawmen, I quit. Any dealings IBM, Ford or GW Bush's grandfather had with the Nazis are not related to this discussion.

Actually, since you brought up the issues of Munich and IBM, it's perfectly germaine to discuss IBM's history of dealing with the Nazis -- and Germany's continuing enthusiasm for IBM. But I'm going to enlighten those who don't know about this sad chapter in human history...
186 posted on 11/16/2003 7:05:52 PM PST by Bush2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 178 | View Replies]

To: TheEngineer
Stop pretending that you actually have a reference article for your conspiracy theories of "slush funds"

Bush demanded the proof too, and I gave it to him. Then he ran off on a tangent since his bet had been called.

The best that I can tell is that Microsoft bid ~27M euros and the unnamed Linux competitor bid ~30M euros. That doesn't sound like Microsoft offered up anything at a loss.

Microsoft's bid was originally much higher until they dipped into the slush fund and made unprecedented licensing compensation to beat Linux. You haven't been reading, have you? Question: If you can beat a free software bid, and licensing for your software normally costs millions, wouldn't you say they offered at a loss?

187 posted on 11/17/2003 2:49:10 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: Bush2000
Not too bright, are you? IBM ain't charging for the OS -- but it obviously is charging for its services. If Microsoft undercuts IBM, that means it's charging less for its services; in other words, it's competing.

You still don't get it. If you normally sell software for millions, but can undercut a bid using free software, you are obviously giving a way LOTS of software and/or services. They can do this because they have a "beat Linux" slush fund specifically for this purpose. You still haven't answered if you think the big trucking firms were right in shutting out the independents.

188 posted on 11/17/2003 2:52:18 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 184 | View Replies]

To: Bush2000
Hardly. I've come to expect technology-challenged ivory tower academics to use Macs. These are the same guys that can't handle anything more than a one-button mouse.

Man, you really are dense. For one, this is the first Mac-based system in the Top 500 ever, and it showed up at #3. Usually, they use Alpha, Intel, AMD or custom processors. Second, these are hard-core computer scientists setting up these systems, writing custom code to get them working optimally, not what you view as the little old man in a library-like office surrounded by books.

But very few businesses would entrust their enterprises to 'em. Even you, with your day job supporting PCs, have to admit that.

The main reason they don't is because Windows is entrenched, it's habit. But, many businesses are running mission-critical enterprise apps on essentially Macs. It's called FreeBSD, a UNIX variant (I bet you've never heard of UNIX in the enterprise, right?), which is what the Mac operating system is based on.

BTW, have you noticed that NONE of these top systems run Windows? There's a good reason for that.

189 posted on 11/17/2003 2:58:35 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies]

To: Bush2000
Actually, since you brought up the issues of Munich and IBM, it's perfectly germaine to discuss IBM's history of dealing with the Nazis -- and Germany's continuing enthusiasm for IBM.

Now you're showing that you DEFINITELY don't know what you're talking about. If there were even the slightest sentiment about the IBM/Nazi connection, IBM would most definitely lose the contract. I lived in Germany for 14 years in and supporting our Army -- I know German sentiment towards anything Nazi.

190 posted on 11/17/2003 3:01:41 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
Microsoft's bid was originally much higher until they dipped into the slush fund and made unprecedented licensing compensation to beat Linux. You haven't been reading, have you?

Unfortunately for you, I have been reading... And I haven't seen your evidence of a "slush fund". (and no, repeating "slush fund" over and over isn't evidence.)

Question: If you can beat a free software bid, and licensing for your software normally costs millions, wouldn't you say they offered at a loss?

I ask for proof... And it sounds like you want me to prove it for you? LOL!

MS's bid was 27M euros; and the unnamed OSS bidder was ~30M euros. Yet with no knowledge of the details, you claim that MS's offer was at a loss. That's why I'm not taking you seriously.

If you're trying to make the case that MS isn't allowed to give their software away for free and make their profits from services, go for it. It might be mildly entertaining to watch you try this route.

191 posted on 11/17/2003 8:19:41 PM PST by TheEngineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 187 | View Replies]

To: TheEngineer
here A quick Google on your part would have given you this and much more.

MS's bid was 27M euros; and the unnamed OSS bidder was ~30M euros.

It was originally much higher, but they dipped into the fund and played with licensing to get it lower. The still charged a lot for licensing, and that's why they had to dip into the fund to pay for services.

192 posted on 11/18/2003 9:16:20 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 191 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
It [MS's bid] was originally much higher, but they dipped into the fund and played with licensing to get it lower. The still charged a lot for licensing, and that's why they had to dip into the fund to pay for services.

The link you provided seemed like a fairly decent article. The article paints a picture of a company which is trying to adapt to a new type of competition and succeed. Nothing was particularly shocking for me.

Unfortunately (for you), the author didn't claim that MS was breaking the law. If that's your reference for this, then you should keep searching. It did point out that Europe's laws are different, and that "dominant" companies face certain restrictions when competing there. But MS looks like it did the homework in advance with the lawyers, and they were careful to not sell their software at a loss.

From the article...

The discounts were "not to exceed" the royalties that Microsoft received from the makers of the PCs, he said. In other words, managers could give away the software free, if necessary, but were not authorized to offer a discount amounting to more than Microsoft was actually receiving in royalties.

I'll ask again... Where's the evidence of illegal discounts?

193 posted on 11/19/2003 8:17:05 AM PST by TheEngineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 192 | View Replies]

To: TheEngineer
The article paints a picture of a company which is trying to adapt to a new type of competition and succeed.

So I take it you retract your position that the slush fund doesn't exist. Note also that they are also allowed to give free services in order to win contracts.

I never said illegal, I said it raises questions of legality. The laws for government contracting are quite strict, which is probably why I haven't heard of Microsoft dipping into the fund to win government contracts. On the other hand, it could be because the government is so insanely MS-centric and doesn't even consider alternate bidders (as regulations generally require of all other things).

In any case, their motive isn't to compete, it is to kill. MS cannot stamp out Linux like it did Netscape, so they have to try a different tactic -- sell services at a loss if necessary to undercut Linux-based bids in order to keep it out of the enterprise. MS is already trying to kill it on other ends, with examples of its "Embrace, Extend, Eliminate" philosophy.

In the end, the point is that MS's actions are competetive, but go too far into the realm of anti-competitiveness.

194 posted on 11/19/2003 2:13:39 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
So I take it you retract your position that the slush fund doesn't exist.

Your reference didn't mention a slush fund. Besides, the article clearly stated that Microsoft had no intention of selling at a loss. A "fund" implies that a bank account exists somewhere. In this case, we're only talking about an intention to sell at a discount. That can be accomplished without a single penny in any "account". "Funds" are used for buying, not selling.

In any case, their motive isn't to compete, it is to kill.

I've never heard of a business that wants their competition to survive.

...sell services at a loss if necessary to undercut Linux-based bids in order to keep it out of the enterprise.

Point out the part in your reference that backs up this claim. (Hint: It doesn't.) Your reference article was actually a pretty good article. I'll give you credit for that. But the article was quite clear that nothing was sold at a loss.

I never said illegal, I said it raises questions of legality.

Well, you said that you would deny any contract awards to Microsoft if their "slush fund" was used. Presumed guilty until proven innocent???...

[antiRepublicrat:] If someone were targeting an RFP towards a Linux system and somehow the Microsoft bid came in lower (without using their slush fund), then Microsoft would have to get the contract.

195 posted on 11/19/2003 7:21:46 PM PST by TheEngineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
This is predictable. Not that the DNC knows better - they're probably doing it because it's cheaper. But, MS solutions are cludgy and unreliable. I support them for a living. The longer I support MS stuff, the less I want their stuff on my own equipment. Exchange is as bad or worse. But you'll never get the MS robots to admit it lol. Then again, reality doesn't require their approval.
196 posted on 11/19/2003 7:48:12 PM PST by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TheEngineer
A "fund" implies that a bank account exists somewhere.

Or money earmarked within a company for a specific purpose.

I've never heard of a business that wants their competition to survive.

But since it serves the public to keep competition, various anticompetitive actions are illegal, or at least unethical. There is good reason that your beloved Microsoft is a convicted monopolist.

Nice bringing up my RFP comment. It might be difficult to discern specific targeting from simple specifications. For example, if you demand that your mail or web server must have continuous uptimes measured in months while maintaining the latest security patches, that's both an understandable objective criteria and a criteria that could be considered to be purposely excluding Microsoft products.

197 posted on 11/20/2003 7:47:07 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: Havoc
But, MS solutions are cludgy and unreliable. I support them for a living.

So do I. But for some reason MS acolyte (l)users seem to think all of their products are great, and that MS is on top because of technical superiority.

198 posted on 11/20/2003 7:49:04 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 196 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
It isn't technical superiority. The big one I always hear is "ease of use" but even that doesn't wash nowadays. Even a lot of the long time MS users are getting impatient when they have to call in to get MS office reinstalled for the xth time cause it keeps blowing up. They don't tend to appreciate losing their archived mail because there is an undefined limit to the data file size which, when reached,
invariably causes corruption of the pst file which is largely unrecoverable. The people I support used to have backups of individual mailboxes. But under the Exchange solution, doing that was deemed to be so expensive due to the number of times that it was being requested done that they have given up doing it any longer. Individual mailboxes no longer are supported on backup. For those of you who do support major contracts, I'll let that settle in for a moment. Cause that is pretty impactful. I'm just wondering when the people I support will get to the 20/20 hindsite stance and realize where they are. It is not a good position to be in - especially when a lost email can cost the company millions.
</p>
199 posted on 11/20/2003 9:18:40 AM PST by Havoc (If you can't be frank all the time are you lying the rest of the time?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]

To: antiRepublicrat
Or money earmarked within a company for a specific purpose.

If the product/service isn't sold at a loss, then no money needs to pre-exist. Funds are used for buying, not selling. I didn't think an MBA was required to understand this.

200 posted on 11/20/2003 10:01:17 AM PST by TheEngineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 197 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200201-213 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson