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To: Luis Gonzalez
I wrote:
"He has not secured our borders."
Luis Gonzalez responded
That's right, you would want troops running around border towns stopping the deadly invasion of dishwashers and room maids from Mexico.

1. Terrorists need cover. There are many "Other than Mexicans" comming in. These include Arabs and Muslims.
2. The undocumented aliens bring disease, cause environmental distruction, damage our culture, and drive down wages of Americans.
3. Look up the fall of Rome. The death blow came when the Goths, who had filtered into the empire for 200 years decided to take power. Are we immune from this in the New World?
As some Native Americans.

"He refuses to fight islamism in America."
That's right, fight the people that caused yuou no harm, and defend our freedoms by persecuting a religion in absolute violation of the First Amendment. Brilliant!

Luis, are ignorant or purposely using the leftist ploy of calling racism and trying to turn your preffered interpretation of the Constituion into a suicide pact for America?
In case you actually are ignorant, let me be clear. Islamism is a form of Islam, not the entire religion.
Please read the following articles, so you do not come off like the average leftist idiot from a leftist group like ANSWER. (If I am being rude, it is because I do not like the ignorant impugning my motives.)
Distinguishing between Islam and Islamism
Islamism
The tenets of terror
Is Islamism a Threat? (written in 1999)
Islamism
However, many Muslims are Islamists or sympathetic. Most Islamic instiutions in the US are Islamist or have other ties to terrorism.
The First Ammendment does not protect terrorism or the crime of conspiracy to commit murder or sedition.

"Frankly, he failed to define the enemy."
Do you actually live on this planet?

Cosidering your inability to differentiate Islam from Islamism and your belief that the First Ammendment protects terrorist groups, I'm not sure what reality you live in.
As for the undefined threat, President Bush has failed to point out Islamic Terrorism and Islamism as a threat. He uses liberal platitudes and stood on a dais with members of the Islamist group CAIR.

"...or propose the necessary force structure to defeat the threat."
In other words, he has not dropped nukes in places where we all know the enemy is NOT hiding, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the process, so that instead of fighting groups of thughs, we can beging fighting a billion people scattered throughout every nation in the world.

Mr. Gonzales,
We have met in the past. Even after a few drinks, you were not an idiot. Thus, I am sure that you retain the capability to LOOK UP TERMS.
"Force Structure" does not indicate using nukes against civilians.
"Force Structure" reffers to the size, disposition, and capability of our military.
We have 10 army divisions, 4 of which are deployed. WE are overstretched!

"He has sought to fight a world-war peicemeal and on the cheap."
Oh yeah, so speaks the Wespoint graduate. We should let keyboard jocks run the military

We let ignorant populists supported by the PC media gut the military.
The reality is that there is civilian control. As a citizen, I have a right to discuss our military policy.
That arguement was below the silliest Bushbot.

I'm not sure aI consider you to be a member of the right.
Who made a PC ignoramus the arbiter of the right?

90 posted on 12/13/2003 12:51:19 AM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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To: rmlew
Lew...

Run for president, or write a letter to Santa and ask for all your wishes to come through.

Lucikly, as with most FReepers, Santa will see just what a monumental idiot you are and simply ignore you.

"Who made a PC ignoramus the arbiter of the right?"

My exact thoughts as I read both this article, and your response to it.

93 posted on 12/13/2003 7:14:52 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: rmlew
Terrorists entered the country throughy totally legal means, to use the armed forces to "secure" borders is suicididal, as we would then set up a de facto warzone here at home. The war, and subsequently American troops fighting that war, need to be fighting in the terrorist's home, which by the way, and if you had you an ounce of brains you would have figured this out by now, is what we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan...forcing the terrorists to fight on their turf. There are increasing reports out of Iraq that more and more outsiders are coming in to fight the American troops.

"The undocumented aliens bring disease, cause environmental distruction, damage our culture, and drive down wages of Americans."

So, are you concerned with Muslim terrorists, or Mexican dishwashers?

Quite clearly it's the latter, and you're so blinded by "those damned wetbacks", that you are willing to destroy our ability to fight a global war in order to address what constitutes a problem you have with Mexicans.

The short-sighted, military ignoramus here is you.

I love the old "fall of Rome" argument!

Gays were the cause of the fall of the Roman Empire!

Immigrants were the cause of the fall of the Roman Empire!

Immorality was the cause of the fall of the Roman Empire!

Anything that existed at the time of the fall of the Roman Empire is credited with ending it.

The Roman Empire, like any complex society, shared many societal traits with any presently existing complex society, so you can point at nearly any aspect of that society, and find it present in today's world. Does that mean that we are because of that doomed to suffer the same fate as the Roman Empire?

I'll answer that by listing as many "Empires" as I can think of and examining their current status.

The working concept here is that Empires rise, peak, and fall, and of course, the most glaring error in your argument being that the US of A is not an Empire.

Me ignorant?

That's a laugh!

Now, Islamism is being fought in America every day, people are neing arrested for conducting terrorism-related activities, I read about it all the time. You pretend it isn't happening. But there's a fine line between persecuting Islamicists, and violating the First Amendment.

"However, many Muslims are Islamists or sympathetic. Most Islamic instiutions in the US are Islamist or have other ties to terrorism. "

And of course, only you and the rest of the people who know the secret handshake know about these organizations that are operating right under the nose of our entire government!

Double upon your meds...will you?

"Cosidering your inability to differentiate Islam from Islamism and your belief that the First Ammendment protects terrorist groups"

Are you Dean, or Kerry?

Only in your dilusions have I failed to differentiate Islamic terrorism from Islam, as a matter of fact, that was the entire thrust of my response, but your obviously limited intellect failed to grasp the concepts addressed by my post.

The war has been structured to draw conflict away from American shores, thus our military presence in Iraq, call it a rented battlefield if you wish, we are fighting one facet of this war in the cities, towns, and streets where the terrorists live...we are drawing them to us by threatening to topple any government that supports terrorism,. and to take apart their support network. The second, and most significant aspect of this war, is being fought with computers, tracking and shutting down as many sources of financing available to terrorist groups as possible; the decision to attack the Towers with commercial airliners was not made based on its symbolic value, it was a direct attack on our financial strenght and economic stability, and it was nearly succesful in crushing our economy. In turn, we have to return that favor.

We are in the very early stages of a war, we are fighting that war with a military devastated by Clinton's policies, and underfunded during his entire administration. The President himself warned us that this would be a long fight, and we have a long way to go.

Ignorance Lew, is most often than not a side-effect of the willingness to read only those things that support your ideas, and ignoring challenges to them. That appears to be the case with you.

You need to quit looking to read only thise things that support your ideas, and balance them by reading those that challenge them.

When you do, you may actually be able to debate intelligently with someone in here.

94 posted on 12/13/2003 9:01:42 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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