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Do Iraqi terrorists have secret weapon?
G2 Bulletin (by war of WorldNetDaily.com) ^ | November 4, 2003 | G2 Bulletin (by war of WorldNetDaily.com)

Posted on 11/04/2003 10:21:42 AM PST by Jacob Kell

WASHINGTON -- A mystery munition knocked a U.S. Army M1A1 Abrams tank out of commission in Iraq, leading the Pentagon to question whether the terrorists have a secret weapon in their arsenal.

An unclassified Army report says a projectile punched through the vehicle and drilled a pencil-sized hole through the hull. The hole was so small that, according to the author's report, "my little finger will not go into it."

The Abrams tank is nearly invulnerable to attack. Only two have been disabled by enemy fire during the entire Iraq campaign, according to the Army Times. The other one was felled by a rocket-propelled grenade, or RPG-7. In the tank's 20-year career, only rarely have any others been disabled by enemy fire.

U.S. Army M1A1 Abrams tank

Yet, shortly before dawn Aug. 28, this 69-ton tank, on routine patrol in Baghdad "was hit by something," according to the report.

The small breach of the hull continued into the crew compartment, where it passed through the gunner’s seatback, grazed the kidney area of the gunner’s flak jacket and finally came to rest after boring a hole 1-½ to 2 inches deep in the hull on the far side of the tank.

Experts analyzing the strange attack are almost certain it was not the result of an RPG-7 attack. They suspect the damage was the result of something new, which is causing grave concern among tank drivers in Iraq and in the Pentagon.

"The unit is very anxious to have this 'SOMETHING' identified," wrote Terry Hughes, a technical representative from Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois, who wrote the report. "It seems clear that a penetrator of a yellow molten metal is what caused the damage, but what weapon fires such a round and precisely what sort of round is it? The bad guys are using something unknown and the guys facing it want very much to know what it is and how they can defend themselves."

The four-man crew suffered only minor injuries in the attack. The tank commander received "minor shrapnel wounds to the legs and arms and the gunner got some in his arm" as a result of the attack, according to the report.

But whatever penetrated the tank created enough heat inside the hull to activate the vehicle's Halon firefighting gear.

"Can someone tell us?" Hughes wrote. "If not, can we get an expert on foreign munitions over here to examine this vehicle before repairs are begun? Please respond quickly."

So far, no one has been able to answer Hughes' question.

One theory is an updated version of the RPG – perhaps of more sophisticated Russian origin.

An even more bizarre theory, given the extremely small size of the breach, is some kind of experimental, previously unknown particle-beam weapon.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: abrams; iraq; m1a1; mysteryweapon; particlebeam; rpg; tank; waronterror; warwithiraq

1 posted on 11/04/2003 10:21:43 AM PST by Jacob Kell
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To: archy
Hetman, your expertise is needed here ;-)
2 posted on 11/04/2003 10:27:15 AM PST by struwwelpeter
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To: Jacob Kell
A mystery munition knocked a U.S. Army M1A1 Abrams tank out of commission in Iraq, leading the Pentagon to question whether the terrorists have a secret weapon in their arsenal.

Besides the liberal media?

3 posted on 11/04/2003 10:30:40 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Jacob Kell

U.S. Army M1A1 Abrams tank


4 posted on 11/04/2003 10:31:50 AM PST by COBOL2Java (If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading this in English, thank a soldier.)
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To: Jacob Kell
I would think a platter charge or a similiar configuration of high explosive driving a projectile would be capable of reaching velocities around 5-8 KM/S. This would provide MEGA-foot*lbs for a small projectile.
5 posted on 11/04/2003 10:37:01 AM PST by AdamSelene235 (I always shoot for the moon......sometimes I hit London.- Von Braun)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Jacob Kell
more info here
7 posted on 11/04/2003 10:42:43 AM PST by SGCOS
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To: William Weatherford
A railgun is one way to launch a hypervelocity projectile, chemical propellant another.

I think what has experts puzzled is the nature of the projectile, not the propulsion. Whatever it was, it did not act like a shaped charge or a DU penetrator, from this and other articles I have read. For instance, no sign of spallation, just a melted hole.

The real facts are, I hope, classified (as an exploitable vulnerability of a fielded system).
8 posted on 11/04/2003 10:51:32 AM PST by DBrow
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To: Jacob Kell
Iraqi terrorists DO have a secret weapon (or at least one that stupid people fail to recognize):

the Socialist-DEMOCRAT PARTY in the USA!
9 posted on 11/04/2003 11:29:00 AM PST by Roughneck (9 out of 10 Terrorists prefer Democrats, the rest prefer Saddam Hussein)
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To: DBrow
The real facts are, I hope, classified

They are.

10 posted on 11/04/2003 11:35:51 AM PST by ASA Vet
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To: Jacob Kell
The not so secret weapon is the media.
11 posted on 11/04/2003 11:38:11 AM PST by verity (Have you b**** slapped a reporter today?)
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To: William Weatherford
"one shot rail gun" Please. We are still trying to develop a rail gun that can be used out side of a lab. These guns right now are still to big to even mount on a tank. To me it sounds like a Russian made version of our kinetic energy weapons like the Depleted Uranium rounds.

SEE
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/du.htm
12 posted on 11/04/2003 11:51:21 AM PST by kerouacbal (I'm right your left out)
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To: Jacob Kell
An even more bizarre theory, given the extremely small size of the breach, is some kind of experimental, previously unknown particle-beam weapon.

Just heard this on AM radio news, saying that the thinking IS that it was a "Particle Beam Weapon" of unknown origin.

13 posted on 11/04/2003 2:02:45 PM PST by Lael (Bush to Middle Class: Send your kids to DIE in Iraq while I send your LIVELIHOODS to INDIA!)
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To: Jacob Kell
Only two have been disabled by enemy fire during the entire Iraq campaign, according to the Army Times. The other one was felled by a rocket-propelled grenade, or RPG-7.

Wrong, it was hit by a Kornet ATGM, not an RPG. About the most an RPG-7 can do to an Abrams is knock a tread off.

14 posted on 11/04/2003 2:08:24 PM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: Jacob Kell
The Iraqis secret weapon is a media hostile toward the successful adminstration of Iraq for political reasons here in the US and a opposition party made up of the likes of Jim Mcdermott and and David? Bonior, US politicians who have demostrated a willingness to side with an enemy to spite the leadership of George Bush.
15 posted on 11/04/2003 2:13:19 PM PST by cardinal4 (Hillary and Clark rhymes with Ft Marcy park...)
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To: Jacob Kell
An even more bizarre theory, given the extremely small size of the breach, is some kind of experimental, previously unknown particle-beam weapon.

Gimme a break.

16 posted on 11/04/2003 2:18:19 PM PST by mikegi
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To: Jacob Kell
The Army Times article on this incident: Pencil-thin, but able to stop a tank

An RPG, esp. the newer models, CAN penetrate an Abrams if they hit it just right, as can other missles like the Kornet.

From the article: [The RPG] hollow-charge warhead easily could punch through an M1’s skirt and the relatively thin armor of its armpit joint, the area above the tracks and beneath the deck on which the turret sits, just where the mystery round hit the tank

the tank may have been hit by an updated RPG. About 15 years ago, Russian scientists created tandem-warhead anti-tank grenades designed to defeat reactive armor. The new round, a PG-7VR, can be fired from an RPG-7V launcher and might have left the unusual signature on the tank . . .t appears most likely that an RPG-22 or some other improved variant of the Russian-designed weapon damaged the M1 tank, sources concluded. The damage certainly was caused by some sort of shaped-charge or hollow-charge warhead, and the cohesive nature of the destructive jet suggests a more effective weapon than a fragmented-jet RPG-7.

Pics of the damage.

17 posted on 11/04/2003 3:01:59 PM PST by jordan8
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To: Jacob Kell
yes, most likely a secret russian weapon...
18 posted on 11/04/2003 3:05:17 PM PST by iBillDavis
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: struwwelpeter
Hetman, your expertise is needed here ;-)

Like the man said in Casablanca: Round up the usual suspects.

Hetmani, huh? I'd think the old Rotmistr of post-Peter the Great cavalry detatchments would be more fitting for a treadhead, armored cavalryman or tank destroyer panzerjaeger....but whatever you think best, Vashe vysokoblagorodie Podpolkovnik!

You know anything about what the 509th parachute infantry have been up to lately?

20 posted on 11/06/2003 8:08:47 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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