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To: Notforprophet; dread78645; sam_paine; MontanaBeth; mamaduck; BibChr
I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that a low-carb diet has produced serious health issues.

The controversy doesn't deal with low-carbs. Lowering carb intake is obviously a part of dieting.

The Atkins controversy deals with excessive protein intake which produces strain on your renal system.

Plus, any meat-intensive menu is going to raise your cholesterol level significantly.

Losing weight is about lowering calories and increasing exercise. You can lower calories through any combination of foods, not just by lowering carbs.

BTW, my wife is a medical professional who told me the docs, with whom she works, despise the Atkins diet because of the health problems they're seeing.

And a recent news article said that, here in central CA, several hospitals have banned the Atkins diet.

If you want more info, go to Google, and type, "Atkins Diet Dangerous." Also, "Atkins Diet Renal Failure." Again, "Atkins Diet Cholesterol."

The resulting webs sites will give you plenty of info on both sides of the issue.

BTW, my best wishes are sincere, not "ominous."

40 posted on 11/04/2003 10:28:28 AM PST by wheelgunguru
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To: wheelgunguru
I still doubt direct causality. Actual research is going in the other direction.

And once again, if my experience and others' is an indication, give me "dangerous."

Dan
43 posted on 11/04/2003 10:34:28 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: wheelgunguru
Gee, it was my own personal physician who turned me on to locarb.

Went in for my checkup to see my rolypoly gyn turned all lean and buff--so I tried what he had.

Most of the criticisms I've read of the Atkins plan boil down to "post hoc, ergo propter hoc." That means if you shake hands with someone and they drop dead, handshaking is very dangerous...

There has been no establishment of increased renal failure by healthy people doing Atkins. Those with kidney disease should not try Atkins--

There was some discussion that Atkins might cause gall bladder disease, but all overweight people (especially women in the "four f's" category--Fat, Forty, Fair and Fertile) are at increased risk. If you lose weight, also, you are at increased risk of gall bladder disease. So naturally there's a lot of GBD numbers floating around any diet.

Some new studies indicate a possibility that locarb eating (and that means more fat and protein) increases the "good" cholesteral and decreases triglycerides. But we need a good look at that.

There is an epidemic of Type II diabetes in this country--this used to be called Adult Onset diabetes until it became epidemic among children. --Just in the past few years, mind you. Video games get the blame, but I'm betting it's the twinkies.

44 posted on 11/04/2003 10:36:24 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: wheelgunguru; Notforprophet; dread78645; MontanaBeth; mamaduck; BibChr
wheelgunguru......Buzz Off!

You are a condescending nitwit to tell me to do a "google" search to learn about my health decisions.

I have discussed my diet/exercise actions with my doctor as I have returned to my target weight over the past year of a low-carb diet. His advice and his vigilance beats anything your wife overheard at the dentist office hands down! My blood tests show no adverse health effects at all....IN FACT I no longer take Lipitor for cholesterol. And I eat bacon!!! ARrrrrrghh! That should give your wife fits. Ha! Get lost, riteous dude.

46 posted on 11/04/2003 10:42:40 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: wheelgunguru
I started the Atkins Diet in July, after a family doctor friend recommended it. My own doctor is quite happy with the diet. I have lost 30 lbs with 40 to go, my husband has lost 50. My Type II diabetes is essentially gone, and I've stopped taking all medication for it, with the doctor's blessing. My blood pressure has dropped to well within the normal range.

The Atkins Diet is NOT about all the meat you can eat. The carbs I get are from eating veggies and salads. After healthly portions of them, I'm just not too hungry for much meat...

I plan on eating this way for the rest of my life. My health has improved too much to ever go back.
52 posted on 11/04/2003 10:58:07 AM PST by TN Prof
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To: wheelgunguru
I'm with you on this. I think you can adopt an Atkins-like approach, but not go overboard on protein, include modest amounts of whole grains, and substitute legumes, nuts and skim milk for much or all of the meat in the protein part of the diet.

This is just my personal approach, and was influenced by the fact that I am a life long vegetarian and love veggie foods, as I am sure many Atkins adherents are influenced by their love of meat. Objectively, though, I don't believe modest amounts of meat or whole grains and pulses will hurt anyone.

Doing this along with biking and swimming I lost eighty pounds and have kept fifty of them off for three years without struggling anymore.

60 posted on 11/04/2003 11:10:28 AM PST by SupplySider
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To: wheelgunguru
Plus, any meat-intensive menu is going to raise your cholesterol level significantly.

I have been on Atkins since February. I have lost 50 pounds... and my cholesterol has dropped 20 points. I feel better than I ever have.

73 posted on 11/04/2003 11:18:17 AM PST by carton253 (To win the War on Terror, raise at once the black flag!)
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To: wheelgunguru
Plus, any meat-intensive menu is going to raise your cholesterol level significantly.

Then how to explain my cholesterol actually dropping to 171 after six months of being on a meat-intensive menu? Good cholesterol is up and bad cholesterol is down. Tryglycerides smack in the middle of the normal range. Blood pressure normal for the first time in years. My doctor was astounded with the results (and the weight loss).

If you want more info, go to Google, and type, "Atkins Diet Dangerous." Also, "Atkins Diet Renal Failure." Again, "Atkins Diet Cholesterol."

That doesn't mean a thing. You could also go to Google and type, "Conservative Republicans dangerous", "GOP bad for America" and "Ronald Reagan is the Antichrist" and come up with scores and scores of websites telling you how bad we all are. Good thing most of us are smart enough to sort through the chaff and use our own brains to decide what is best for us.

117 posted on 11/04/2003 11:58:01 AM PST by SamAdams76 (201.6 (-98.4) Homestretch to 200)
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To: wheelgunguru
"The Atkins controversy deals with excessive protein intake which produces strain on your renal system."

That is why you need to drink lots of water. I have been and haven't had any problems. Just have to go alot. My acid reflux has virtually disappeared as well.

151 posted on 11/04/2003 12:55:10 PM PST by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: wheelgunguru
What health risks could possibly surpass being 571 pounds?
173 posted on 11/04/2003 2:13:39 PM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: wheelgunguru
Actually, most of the information that you have presented against Atkins has been proven false, not only in testing but in personal experience.

My brother-in-law had a check-up and was told that his tri-glyceride (cholesterol pre-cursors) was so high (567)that his cholesterol could not be measured and that he was in danger of a stroke or heart attack. My sister was on Atkins so he decided to give it a try. He went back to the doctor's in two months to have his triglycerided checked and found that they were down to 87, well within the normal limit. I have heard of other similar stories regarding cholesterol. What happens is the body is burning the fat instead of storing it in the form of cholesterol.
174 posted on 11/04/2003 2:15:51 PM PST by Eva
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To: wheelgunguru
Plus, any meat-intensive menu is going to raise your cholesterol level significantly.

Went to the doc. He said my cholesterol was too high (245). He wanted to put me on medication. I talked him into trying diet and exercise. He said that I had to come back in three months.

I started Atkins the next day. Bacon, eggs, ribeye steaks, buttered steamed veggies, salad with olive oil and spices or sour cream as dressing... YUM!

Went back to doc in three months. Had lost 20 pounds and cholesterol was 208. Feel good, sleeping great, knees no longer hurt constantly, more alert, no afternoon blahs, heartburn MUCH less.

Needless to say, I disagree with you.

191 posted on 11/04/2003 3:23:36 PM PST by FrogMom
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To: wheelgunguru
The Atkins controversy deals with excessive protein intake which produces strain on your renal system.

What excessive protein? If you're doing it right, about 22-25% of your daily calories come from protein, with about 3-5% from carbs and the balance in fat. Atkins is not a high protein way of eating - it's a high fat one (preferably 50% or more of fat calories in the monosaturated group and almost none in the hydrogenated/transfats/polyunsaturated group).

Plus, any meat-intensive menu is going to raise your cholesterol level significantly.

Low carbing doesn't raise cholesterol levels. In fact, it tends to lower them. Last test I had showed an overall cholesteral level of 142 with triglycerides of 46, normal LDL and slightly low HDL (for which I've increased the amount of monosaturated fats consumed).

BTW, my wife is a medical professional who told me the docs, with whom she works, despise the Atkins diet because of the health problems they're seeing.

Tell your wife she has my deepest sympathies that the doctors with whom she works are so unenlightened. A doctor put me on low carb in 1998, and every doctor I've seen since has been supportive.

Maven
213 posted on 11/04/2003 8:58:17 PM PST by Maven
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To: wheelgunguru
Normally, people focus on their total cholesterol level. But studies show that even among people with the same cholesterol level, those who have lots of large cholesterol particles have only about a third the risk of having a heart attack as those who have mostly small particles.

Doctors say you can make your cholesterol particles larger through a low-carbohydrate diet, exercise and medications, including niacin. Researchers are already working on a drug that would both lower cholesterol levels and increase particle size.

===

"as body fatness rose, low density lipoprotein (LDL, the "bad" cholesterol) particle size decreased and concentration rose. Most importantly, the people with high numbers of small LDL particles were likely to have insulin resistance -- a strong precursor to diabetes." http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/issue86/item9.shtml

225 posted on 11/04/2003 11:20:21 PM PST by XBob
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To: wheelgunguru; Notforprophet; sam_paine; MontanaBeth; mamaduck; BibChr
The controversy doesn't deal with low-carbs. Lowering carb intake is obviously a part of dieting.

It's a little more complex than that. The goal is to reduce caloric intake to match your metabolism.

Eating carbs raise your serum glucose causing a rise of insulin secreted from the pancreas. Insulin allows the cells to use the glucose for energy.
As the glucose is depleted insulin levels drop.
This triggers a response to eat again.

Foods high in fat give a sense of being "full" without jerking around the blood glucose. So there's no insulin peak and valley --no craving to eat again a few hours after a regular meal. ==> Fewer calories eaten.

The Atkins controversy deals with excessive protein intake which produces strain on your renal system.

The Harvard study of a high protein diet (no mention of the increased water intake or mineral suplemnts required by Atkins) of ~1600 women showed impaired kidney function in about 10%. All of whom had prior renal problems.
Since most people don't have their renal functions tested; the study comes to the dubious conclusion that high protein diets are hard on the kidneys and therefore nobody should go on those kinds of diets.
(No conclusions from the running/broken leg study, so far)

Plus, any meat-intensive menu is going to raise your cholesterol level significantly.

Dietary cholesterol is only about 4-6% of serum cholesterol. The liver & intestines make up the rest; otherwise vegans would have -0- colesterol. And what do you think of the Masai in Kenya who consume nothing but meat and milk (~ 1lb of butter fat/day!) who average serum colesterol levels under 170mg/dl?

Studies done with rabits and canines in the '50 and '60 on cornary heart disease made the conclusion that cholesterol caused the disease.
Human studies on men looked for the same link, and found it.
Thus the 'cholesterol causes heart disease'. duckspeak.

This conclusion wasn't questioned when similar studies on women were inconclusive, as were studies of larger populations (Framingham) --also inconclusive.
And studies of genetically modified pigs that produce twice the "normal" levels of colesterol showed no correlation in death rate from any cause.

Testing on drugs that reduce only colesterol levels showed no difference in cornary death rates, but had higher incidence of stroke. Nasty.

Newer drugs, the statins --like Zocord, have improved motality rates due to heart disease, regardless of colesterol levels. So they work on some other less understood facet of the disease.

This shows to me (and maybe to you), high colesterol is not a cause, but at most, a symptom of cornary heart disease.

Losing weight is about lowering calories and increasing exercise. You can lower calories through any combination of foods, not just by lowering carbs.

True. See above.

Cutting out the fat at 9 Kcal/g seems obvious to reduce when protein & carbs are 4 Kcal/g.
But fats satisfy your sense of hunger sooner and better then carbs. So you tend to eat a smaller equivelent fat calorie meal and the without the glucose spike & crash you don't feel the need to snack.
It's difficult to control eating when your blood sugar/insulin is on a roller-coaster caused those carbs.

BTW, my wife is a medical professional who told me the docs, with whom she works, despise the Atkins diet because of the health problems they're seeing.

I see your anecdote, and raise you 10 million Atkins stories.
(You'd better hedge, there's a bunch of South-Beachers, too).

If you want more info, go to Google, and type, "Atkins Diet Dangerous."

The Google law:Seek and Ye will probably find exactly what you want to believe.

BTW, my best wishes are sincere, not "ominous."

Not directed to me. but so were mine.

256 posted on 11/05/2003 9:32:23 AM PST by dread78645 (Hating Libertarians doesn't make you a conservative.)
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