Time to Kiss and Make Up (The snuggle-bunny country north of the Canadian/U.S. border)

The American Spectator ^ | November 4, 2003 | Steven Martinovich

[quidnunc]

It appears that the average Canadian has realized what most in the federal government have yet to. A poll commissioned by the Centre for Research and Information on Canada found that 44 percent of Canadians believe that Canada should have stronger ties to the United States. It's an increase of 18 percentage points since March and is at its highest point in three years.

While Canadians are clearly growing concerned about their ties to the United States, Canada's government has done little to bridge the distance. Thanks in part to undiplomatic talk before and after George W. Bush's election, the president has yet to make a visit to Canada — outside of attending two international conferences — and Prime Minister Jean Chrétien has only made one visit to the White House. To add injury to insult many prominent Canadians — including officials in the prime minister's office — seemed to take an "unholy glee" at what happened to the United States on and the days after September 11, 2001, stated historian J.L. Granatstein in a recent speech in Toronto.

"These Canadians and their friends did very serious damage to Canada's relations with the White House and the State Department," said Granatstein.

Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham best expressed the federal government's view on October 30 when he denied relations were in a "deep freeze." Said Graham, "This is a mug's game to go into that. The fact of the matter is that when we have specific problems, when we had the electricity blackout, the prime minister phoned up Mr. Bush, he took his call, we worked on it."

Despite Graham's assertion, it's safe to say that relations are at their frostiest since the days of Pierre Trudeau and Ronald Reagan and not surprisingly the problem partly stems from philosophical differences in approaches to policy. As an example, for Canadians foreign policy is about maintaining dialogue at all costs while Americans prefer a more pragmatic approach. Canada is in the business of trying to export its values while the United States is interested in protecting what it determines is in its national interest. As Granatstein pointed out in his October 21 speech, "Values or principles are for individuals, while nations have interests, above all."

Canada's "soft power" approach has been a dismal failure. The influence that Canadians believe they wield through kind words and understanding has had remarkably little effect in achieving our goals. Like Europe, Canada's influence is diminishing because cultural exchanges and foreign aid don't sway nations like Iran and other unstable rogue states — at the cost of its relationship with the United States. As much as Canadians don't like to admit it, the velvet glove occasionally must reveal the iron first. As Canada's ability to project power has diminished over the past two decades, so has its voice. Particularly with the United States.

-snip-

[mikes-opinion]

well I have friends... I don't know if they are Jews. I never ask. I don't care... But I do not like the Zionists at all. I think they are not representative of the Jews in Israel. Or at the very least I hope they are not.

Canada does not give money to Israel. America does. So it really makes no impact on me personally. However when I see terrorists from both sides whine about the situation..... well I think I have little patience for either of them. I think we should make sure the Arabs have the same number of nukes the Israelis have, then stand back and let them at each other...

Then after the nuetron bombs have done the deed of ridding the world of both peoples, we can go in and grab the oil....

Yea that s the ticket..... ;-)

[mikes-opinion]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-03-03-anti-american-usat_x.htm

I figured since you were so insistant on links, I would give the link that I referred to.

[mikes-opinion]

But I must add. I prefer the label "Pro World" over Anti-American.....

[Dr. Luv]

Mike, I have to tell you that you make it very difficult for people like me to defend your country. I realize that you do no represent mainstream Canada, but rather, a virulent form of left-wing stupidity we may have never seen in the history of our nations. You can hide your ignorance behind euphemistic terms like "Pro World" if you like, but everyone sees them for what they are.

Putting walls up between allies - even in hard times - is simplistic and counter productive. You are as moronic on this front as sunsong is on ours. We need to focus our attention on our real enemy, (you know the one that wants to see us dead and our respective constitutions replaced by sharia law) not on imagined ones. Canada and the United states have over 130 years of friendship, collaboration and trade and a few wingnuts on the Free Republic aren’t going to change that…

[Agitate]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-03-03-anti-american-usat_x.htm
I figured since you were so insistant on links, I would give the link that I referred to

So what is your point Mike? That world opinion is anti-American? We have a saying where I live, "DUH big red truck!" In other words, that's obvious.

So what? I could care less about irrational world opinion. Yes irrational. Most people are angry because the USA is powerful and they are not, especially in Europe where the ego is huge. They are also mad because we don't want to be like liberal socialist Europoeans. They are shocked that we "Jethro" Americans don't want to be like them. Oh well, they best get over it.

Again, so what? I don't care if America wins a popularity contest, I care that we do the right thing, and I think we are.



God Bless America

[laotzu]

"I don't care if America wins a popularity contest, I care that we do the right thing, and I think we are."

Amen.

It takes strength to stand alone.

When lacking any principle to stand on, the size of the herd one runs with sustains rational.

[MAGEE]

God Bless Agitate for summing up our positive outlook.

It would seem Kanada prefers to reflect on negatives as it gives them material to criticize the U.S. when it is none of the g.d. business.

If this mike person is an example of their unoriginal thoughts, they must have printed sheets from which they are posting their messages.

I have read mike's messages and he is a carbon copy of the lot of them. Nothing new or positive only neurotic challenge.

I think they are merely jealous which is so infantile.

Good message Agitate.

[bikewench]

Canada and the United states have over 130 years of friendship, collaboration and trade and a few wingnuts on the Free Republic aren’t going to change that

... or the few wingnuts on the Canadian forum....

I find it pretty sad, that in this time of terrorism and global fear, and the great losses we have ALL suffered... that it is the buffoons that make spectacles of themselves at hockey games, people vandalizing vechicles at the border towns, our loud-mouth shnook politicians, AND our forum wingnuts, that we use for fuel to denigrate each other.

We BOTH have great countries.... with different strengths and weaknesses.

To bad we've taken to sniping at each other like 6 year olds.

[MAGEE]

Here is an example of my concern about the open borders between the two countries --
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/11/06/funds031106

[Agitate]

It takes strength to stand alone.

When lacking any principle to stand on, the size of the herd one runs with sustains rational.

You guys are absolutely right...I think most Americans have the strength to stand alone for what is right regardless of the appeasers.

God bless you and the Canadians who are not self-righteous US bashers.

[laotzu]

"To bad we've taken to sniping at each other like 6 year olds."

Too bad? Most certainly...even shameful.

Speaking only for myself; what finally motivated me into the, admittedly childish, anti-Canadian camp was their sniping at our 6 year olds.

[bikewench]

their sniping at our 6 year olds

Are you inferring that we behaved childishly first... or are you referring to actual events involving 6 year olds?

Care to clue me in?

[laotzu]

"Are you inferring that we behaved childishly first... or are you referring to actual events involving 6 year olds?"

Again, I wish to agree with you that most of this bickering is childish & pointless.

The incident that I found particularly offensive involved children. An busload full of United States hockey playing children crossed the border into Canada, as they were invited to there to play a game with Canadian children. Before even reaching the arena, their bus was assaulted, vile insults were hurled, garbage was thrown.....at children!!

This show of brave Canadian patriotism continued inside the arena.....against children. The game had to be cancelled, and the children had to quickly flee back to the safety of the U.S.

I find this behavior utterly despicable, & contemptable.

I have no interest in who behaved childishly first, and; have no respect for anyone that is willing to behave childishly as long as someone else does it first.

[bikewench]

I couldn't bring anything up about that incident on a search... did it make the news? I would be very suprised if it didn't.... as the media loves this type of thing.

Any reasonable person knows that the wingers make the most noise and create the most havoc. The moderates on both sides of the border... I believe... tend to quietly shake their heads and patiently wait for them to go away... as they know that interacting with them is just fuel for the fire.

Both our countries have it's share of idiots and the woefully uninformed. But... lets hope that common sense prevails... and we both work towards a more harmonious relationship.

[Sunsong]

"Both our countries have it's share of idiots and the woefully uninformed. But... lets hope that common sense prevails... and we both work towards a more harmonious relationship."

There is not a "moral equivalence" and it is irritating to see you imply that. Canada is wrong. You do not see American officials calling Canadians "bastards" that they hate or calling Chretien corrupt or a moron. You do not see major American newspapers claiming that America is "morally superior" to Canada. And America has not betrayed Canada in the way that Canada has betrayed America.

There is no moral equivalance. That there are decent Canadians does not undo the damage that is done. And I would suggest that you foreingers here would make better use of your time changing Canada than trying to defend the indefensible here on this conservative "American" site.

[laotzu]

"... did it make the news?"

I first read it here at FreeRepublic(of course).

I will go and try to find it now.

[NathanR]

In June, I distributed a global facts quiz to Introduction to American Government students at my university in California. This quiz was given to 136 students and was constructed to gauge students' knowledge regarding basic global topics.

You know... If you actually take the time to look at what the globe sees regarding American foreign policy, you would see that Canada is among your best friends.

With the exception of Israel (and Israel does not count due to them running the actual USA)...

You know, you had me going until I got to that drivel. If you think Israel runs the USA, anything else you think is suspect. Not only that, but I pity your students.

[Sunsong]

"Speaking only for myself; what finally motivated me into the, admittedly childish, anti-Canadian camp was their sniping at our 6 year olds."

Yes, wasn't that disgusting. A bus load of innocent children mocked, called names, yelled at and then the game itself was even worse.

Canadians and those like Dr. Luv who only think about money and appeasement, who want to just sweep everything under the rug are making a big mistake, imo.

Canada needs to decide whether they are with us or against us and if they are with us then they need to apologize for their actions since 9/11. You don't get a free pass based on time or proximity. Any relationship can be destroyed, it is childish to take things for granted, and Americans, as loving and forgiving as we are, have our limits and as President Bush said, once we are pushed to anger -- look out...

[NathanR]

I despise David Duke, and think he is a dastardly repugnant republican/conservative.

There you go again. Apparently the only reason you hate DD is because you think he is actually a Republican. Don't you know that the KKK is/was a Democratic party organization? The Republicans kicked DD out and would have nothing to do with him.

[Snowyman]

So I take it you were lying when you said that "Canadians don't belong here"?

I made a statement . Where is the lie? Canadians can learn nothing from you . That's what I said.

Why?

You use innuendo , bullshit and baffle gab. Where's your list ? Where are the facts that back up your anti Canadian statements ?

You define conservatism to your own definition . You're not even close . You refuse to recognize socialism in your own country . You think governments programs can't be socialist in America. Is it possible someone other than a socialist could be that naive ? You advocate closing the border with no regard to the consequences to your fellow Americans . When confronted with the truth you label it as anti American .You're irked by the truth. Tough .

this is an American site. Foreigners like you, who come here all the time would do well to remember the purpose of this site

Maybe you hadn't noticed , this is a forum , not a site,

Purpose: The Free Republic forum is intended for Conservative users who wish to have a serious discussion about political events, conservative principles and the elimination of government corruption and abuse. This is a news and information site not a chat room. Please stay on topic. Free Republic is a supporter of free speech on the Internet but we believe that along with the privilege of free speech comes the responsibility to respect the rights of others.

Conservative users Where's the American qualifier ?