Prebiotic Soup--Revisiting the Miller Experiment [biogenesis]

Science Magazine ^ | May 2003 | Jeffrey L. Bada and Antonio Lazcano

[Ogmios]

My level of science? You are the one trying to use the 2nd law of thermodynamics on an open system.

And you question my level of scientific knowledge? Please, let's not even go there.

I try to keep it simple for you, so you question my knowledge. A snowflake is just as unlikely as a lifeform coming about from primordial ooze, but the snowflakes happen all the time. Minerals crystalize into very complicated structures without any sign of intelligence guiding them, and they are just as unlikely.

You and your game of statistics and the misuse of same, and your game with the second law of thermodynamics and again, your misuse of same.

Statistical analysis will get you no where on the questions of the origins of life, because you cannot put together every concievable variant to put into the equation, so your statistics are at best guesses, and not very good ones at that, and your misuse of the 2nd law. The earth is not a closed system, therefore the 2nd law does not and cannot apply.

And you question my scientific knowledge?

[Vercingetorix]

"I have yet to see any scietific textbook that says evolution is a fact." -- Ogmios

In 1974 I heard Stephen P. Hubbell state in front of an audience that "...evolution is the single most thoroughly documented fact known to man." Given what we have learned since then his statement is probably still true. The theorists are still behind the research curve.

[Ogmios]

Evolution is about as close to fact as you can get in the natural sciences.

It is a basic assumption of biology and genetics.

At the same time, science does not use the term fact when it comes to it's theories, or most scientists don't anyway, and shouldn't. There must always be room to change, and facts are hard immovable things, that's why science does not like the term.

[f.Christian]

Evo Grand unified theory of science ...


Snow job blindness !

The fact that freezing water makes ice crystals - snowflakes ... proves evolution too ---


with the right turbulence - spin ---

hailstones will be people some day !



Anti - entropy (( physics )) too !



Evolution is an open system (( magic )) ...

not subject ... exempted --- to natural physical laws - thermodynamics - SANITY - logic ---


solar - sun generated ...


turn on the lights and the house will clean itself ...

keep TWEAKING them ---

eventually a family will appear !



Wash and dry dishes - cloths on a rock ...

rain washed ---

sun dried !



Road kill cabin fever anarchy - loon science ... evolution --- perpetual nonsense !

Una blunder science !

Evos should be happy to live their science - beliefs ... trial and ABORTION - error and --- let normal people live the Truth - civilzation !

They need help ... reality LOST - suspension --- fantasy maniacs !

When people (( liberals )) lose control of themselves ... out of desperation --- they try to FORCE - control others !

Spontaneous - morphing matter - life ... is the ANTI thesis --- of science !

[f.Christian]

I've been on the FR ... this is my 6th year --- and personally I have outed - offed more liberal disrupters than probably anyone else --- put together !

For the 1st two years I kept a list in my memory I couldn't keep up with ...

I ain't gonna back down to any of you !

Will FR - America become a science fiction cult like you - yours ... there is ultimately an exit strategy for you - your cult buddies coming --- soon - hard !

[Vercingetorix]

"At the same time, science does not use the term fact when it comes to it's theories, or most scientists don't anyway, and shouldn't." -- Ogmios

Theories of evolution purport to explain the fact of evolution. Clearly the vast geological record of fossil species is a fact. The genomes of living species are facts. The explanation (e.g., natural selection) is the theory.

[donh]

So it's about funding.

No, it's not "about" funding. Funding is an ancillary consideration--if we had all the funds we wanted, we'd still want to make our best guesses, not every squirrelly guess we could possibly make. Therein would lie the death of scientific progress--we'd be equally served to run science as a lottery and let every voting pig at the trough decide what scientific principles we should follow. What's the point of spending twenty years educating discerning scientific pallets, if you aren't going to exercise them?

The scientific community is not impartial.

absolutely

Not only are large amounts of existing funding at stake as well as jobs, but the community rewards someone finanicially who can discover the oldest "X".

You mean like when an astronomer finds the oldest star? And your objection is what now?

Between funding considerations and an enthusiastic rejection of religious values, the scientific community is too slanted in support of evolution.

Well, that's an opinion, and you are entitled to it. Pony up some hard evidence other than that your pet theory is being gored, and I'll give it some thought. Last survey I heard about, most scientists were churchgoers, and vast majority that weren't were lapsed, indifferent, or agnostic.

[js1138]

...there is ultimately an exit strategy for you - your cult buddies coming --- soon - hard !

A lot of people are entertained by your acting the fool, but you aren't Shakespeare and this isn't King Lear.

You continue advertising a web site run by someone who threatened to sue Jim Robinson. Why is that? Why do you hate Free Republic so much?

[Ogmios]

Agreed.

[f.Christian]

Where are the " horrorific scandal " facts ... evidence --- is this all slander - libel ?

[donh]

there is ultimately an exit strategy for you - your cult buddies coming --- soon - hard !

You appear to be taking your obnoxious circus act into dangerous ground here. This has the earmarks of a threat--I don't suppose you'd care to cover your ass just a bit?

[f.Christian]

Do you think Jim Robinson is your jason hit man puppet ... pawn ?

[f.Christian]

Maybe you should read the Bible ... there's a lot of prophecy in there --- do you think you can ban Him - it ?

[donh]

In 1974 I heard Stephen P. Hubbell state in front of an audience that "...evolution is the single most thoroughly documented fact known to man." Given what we have learned since then his statement is probably still true. The theorists are still behind the research curve.

"Fact" is a layman's word, and nothing by way of rigorous proof is implied by it. Newton's laws of Gravity are "facts", and heavily relied on, dispite their technical disproof by the perihilion of mercury experiment.

[js1138]

I can recall him making similar threats about our impending demise. Turned our he was talking about the approaching birth of DU, which was going to be the end of us. Now DU is just a cabal of a dozen or so anti-freepers who plot and scheme to disrupt these threads and get us banned.

It's rather sad. It's amazing how many people think they can run a better forum than JimRob, and how pathetic their efforts are.

[Doctor Stochastic]

The two basic observations that lead to evolutionary theory can be (anthropomorphically) stated:

1. Offspring generally differ from their parents.

2. Those with more children generally have more grandchildren.

[donh]

Maybe you think behaving like terminal case of ADD is pursuasive testimony for God. I am pretty tired of your incomprehensible mental diahhrea using up bandwidth and patience on science threads. I wish you would go exercise your dementedly self-absorbed notion of communications elsewhere.

[js1138]

Do you think Jim Robinson is your jason hit man puppet ... pawn ?

If you are so fond of Jim Robinson, why do you advertise a site run by someone who sent him threatening email?

[f.Christian]

Good description of yourself --- soul dead --- virus !

[js1138]

You forgot the LOOP statement.