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To: f.Christian
What the creator established is called ... creation --- what's so hard about that?

What something is called is not nearly as relevant as what that something really is. It is obviously hard for the human mind to comprehend things beyond superficial appearances (i.e. a perceived flat world and earth centered universe).

Did the creator establish evil, death, disease, sin, etc. Was this done by an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present, perfect and good supreme being? If so, one of two things must not be true, He must not be all good or He must not be all powerful. Evil appears to be just as powerful as good (plus or minus a little) - and who created evil anyway? If man can exercise free will to choose between two powers, good (God) or evil (the devil) then there are two gods, two forces in the universe, not one as the Bible says. Does that make sense to you? Is it really that simple?

104 posted on 10/30/2003 7:40:02 PM PST by Semper
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To: Semper
Did the creator establish evil, death, disease, sin, etc. Was this done by an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present, perfect and good supreme being? If so, one of two things must not be true, He must not be all good or He must not be all powerful.

you forgot the third option: God is not the author of evil, but he allows it for His purposes and , has absolute control over it,

111 posted on 10/30/2003 7:44:35 PM PST by HalfFull
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To: Semper
Would you know where this is from ?

The 1st freep - scorcher !

23"Oh, that my words were written!
Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
24That they were engraved on a rock
With an iron pen and lead, forever!
25For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
26And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,
27Whom I shall see for myself,
And my eyes shall behold, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28If you should say, "How shall we persecute him?'--
Since the root of the matter is found in me,
29Be afraid of the sword for yourselves;
For wrath brings the punishment of the sword,
That you may know there is a judgment."
118 posted on 10/30/2003 7:49:43 PM PST by f.Christian (evolution vs intelligent design ... science3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- * architecture * !)
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To: Semper
Basically free will for any one but a Christian is an illusion ... we are practically a whole planet of suckers --- pawns !

Jesus saves ... free will - enlightement --- follows !

That's the way God determines - runs things !
135 posted on 10/30/2003 8:06:02 PM PST by f.Christian (evolution vs intelligent design ... science3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- * architecture * !)
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To: Semper
Did the creator establish evil, death, disease, sin, etc. Was this done by an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-present, perfect and good supreme being? If so, one of two things must not be true, He must not be all good or He must not be all powerful. Evil appears to be just as powerful as good (plus or minus a little) - and who created evil anyway? If man can exercise free will to choose between two powers, good (God) or evil (the devil) then there are two gods, two forces in the universe, not one as the Bible says. Does that make sense to you? Is it really that simple?

Youre getting into questions of authority. The creator has delegated authority to certain other parties before certain choices were made which constitute treason against Him. Lucifer had authority as the primary archangel before inquity was found in him, and a war of rebellion ensued. He was not satisfied with being second under his Creator. After his removal from the presence of God, he was confined to this plane of existence which we now occupy.

So the question follows, if God is omniscient, and He knew of this rebellion before the first Word was ever spoken, why did he do it? Because He didnt want to be the only One. He found it good to create others like Himself.

Adam was the first of a new creation, a race of beings created in His very image.(The angels were not.) So, again, He gave authority over the earth, or this dimension, or this plane of existence, to Adam. Again, treason, so the authority fell by default to Lucifer, previously second in command under Adam. (Adam was specifically commisioned by God to guard against Lucifer.)

Jesus Christ showed up and restored authority back to God (which He is) and man (which He also is).

So now believers, under His authority, have the supreme authority in the earth. Unfortunately, we are born as natural beings, and we have to go through a process of learning to live as supernatural beings after our conversion. So the world is better, but still not perfect. But at least theres hope. So God is not the author of evil, and yes, Satan, or Lucifer, is indeed the god of this present age. But so are Christians, and there have been a number of us throughout history who really knew it and walked in it.

So, thats the big picture of theology. I didnt include scripture references for brevitys sake. (And my apostrophe key is broken, just so you spelling fascists know.)

205 posted on 10/31/2003 4:10:23 AM PST by ovrtaxt ( http://www.fairtax.org **** Forget ANWR. Drill Israel !)
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To: Semper
Actually understanding good and evil is quite simple.

"Evil" can only result from free will. Only man can do evil, because only man has free will. Evil is deliberately doing the wrong thing. That which you call "the devil" is a created being who has turned away from God, but created beings can never be equal to God.

The other "ills" that befall living things are part of the greater good. For example, if a crocodile ate your child, you wouldn't like that, but the crocodile needs to eat, so that's not evil. Similarly with disease. You don't like getting West Nile, but it's good for the West Nile virus.

Genetic diseases are part of the process that allows individuals to be different. Without the possibility of an ancephalic child, there is no possibility of Mozart or Michaelangelo. So that's not evil, either.
208 posted on 10/31/2003 4:41:16 AM PST by CobaltBlue
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