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To: B-Chan
Your pro-Israel views are unfortunately not shared by other traditional Catholics like Sobran and Buchanan, and I think part of the reason is that they are very sour on contemporary American/Western society, view it as apostate, vulgar, and morally corrupt, and therefore have a secret admiration for Islamic societies in which traditional religious values remain dominant. It would not surprise me if someone like Sobran converted to Islam, seeing it as the last defense against the corruptions of modern, secular society.
94 posted on 10/30/2003 9:20:29 AM PST by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: Steve_Seattle
Your pro-Israel views are unfortunately not shared by other traditional Catholics like Sobran and Buchanan, and I think part of the reason is that they are very sour on contemporary American/Western society, view it as apostate, vulgar, and morally corrupt, and therefore have a secret admiration for Islamic societies in which traditional religious values remain dominant.

Excellent point. Also, the identification of theocratic politics with Islamofascist terrorism, like the identification of racism with Nazi extermination, marginalizes them more than ever.

118 posted on 10/30/2003 9:36:21 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Steve_Seattle
Your pro-Israel views are unfortunately not shared by other traditional Catholics like Sobran and Buchanan

I would not tar and feather all Catholics with the views of Sobran and Buchanan. I am certainly not going to accuse an entire religious group in America of anti-Israel or anti-Semitic views based on the statements of two political pundits.

135 posted on 10/30/2003 10:44:04 AM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: Steve_Seattle
...Sobran and Buchanan... are very sour on contemporary American/Western society, view it as apostate, vulgar, and morally corrupt...

A view I share. I am a good deal more than sour on contemporary society, possessed as it is by the Culture of Death.

...and therefore have a secret admiration for Islamic societies in which traditional religious values remain dominant.

I admire Moslem culture insofar as it correctly refuses to acknowledge the secular ideal of government and society that has infected our own culture since the so-called Enlightenment. Those followers of Mohammed that proclaim through their actions the virtues of cleanliness, piety, respect, and charity are certainly to be admired by any moral person. The individual probity of the pious Moslem and cultural respect for the natural law present in Islamic societies, however, do not negate the disorder inherent in their culture that stems from its foundation, the heretical and anti-christian cult of Islam; a house built upon sand will surely fall, even if the sand is the sand of Mecca.

If it is true that Sobran wishes to inhabit a society in which traditional religious values remain dominant, then I agree with him in that desire: I, too, despise the corruptions of modern, secular society. But hatred of Jews is neither a Christian value nor a defense against decadence. Decadence is the result of hatred — the hatred of God — and those who harbor hatred towards Jews or any other group of people only contribute to its spread.

169 posted on 10/30/2003 12:41:09 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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