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Free speech, hate speech clash
NBC NEWS ^ | Oct. 28 | Pete Williams

Posted on 10/29/2003 5:07:11 AM PST by CSM

CASPER, Wyo., Oct. 28 — Five years after University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard was killed, touching off a national dialogue on gay rights, an anti-gay hate group wants to put up a monument to Shepard’s murder in hiss hometown. The city doesn’t want it, but it is caught in a legal tangle that involves, of all things, the Ten Commandments.

AT SHEPARD’S FUNERAL in his hometown of Casper, Wyo., an anti-gay hate group demonstrated in a park across the street, led by the Rev. Fred Phelps, a Baptist minister from Kansas.

Now members of Phelps’ group are back in Casper pushing to be allowed to put up a granite monument in the same park where they picketed at Shepard’s funeral.

The proposed monument would say, “Matthew Shepard entered Hell, October 12, 1998.”

That was the day that Shepard, 21, died of injuries and hypothermia he suffered five days before when two men beat him with a gun butt and left him to die while tied to a fence post in zero-degree weather, after meeting him at a bar in Laramie. Both of the men were later convicted.

‘GOD’S HATE, NOT HUMAN HATE’

“Our message is a message of God’s hate, not human hate,” said Marge Phelps, the reverend’s wife, also of the Westboro, Kan., Baptist Church. “And the concept of God’s hate is found in the Bible. And all it means is that people are going to go to hell if they disobey God.”

The city of Casper, home to about 50,000 residents, wants to say no but may not be able to.

The city park where the anti-gay group wants to put the Shepard monument already has a monument, this one honoring the Ten Commandments from the Bible. And under the law, if the city wants to keep this Shepard monument out, then the Ten Commandments will have to go, too.

Why? Because, legal experts say, the city unwittingly invited other monuments when it put up the Ten Commandments in a public park.

“By putting the Ten Commandments in the park, they created a sort of public forum for speech and debate,” said Tom Goldstein, a First Amendment attorney and appellate court lawyer. “And once the city does that, it can’t discriminate against other viewpoints, no matter how hateful.”

MAYOR OFFENDED BY ‘FILTH’

‘The fact that Reverend Phelps ... would come into Casper and try and put that filth under the guise of the Ten Commandments is total idiocy.’ — BARB PERYAM mayor of Casper, Wyo.

Casper Mayor Barb Peryam said she was offended by the Kansas group’s tactic. “The fact that Reverend Phelps, or Mr. Phelps, would come into Casper and try and put that filth under the guise of the Ten Commandments is total idiocy.”

Bob Crosby, president of the local Eagles Club, which donated the Ten Commandments, said the Eagles reluctantly offered the city a way out: “We would hope they would donate it back to us, and we can display it in an appropriate place.”

Now the city council must decide what to do about this monument, concerned that the Ten Commandments could be used to force the city into accepting a message of hate.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: fredphelps; freespeech; godhatesamerica; godhatesfags; hatecrime; matthewshepard
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To: CSM
The proposed monument would say, “Matthew Shepard entered Hell, October 12, 1998.”

Geez. How'd you like this Phelps person living in your neighborhood?

BTW, do we even need to excerpt NBC articles?

21 posted on 10/29/2003 5:34:22 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: steve8714
They're definitely a "We hate every-f-ing-body but us" group.
22 posted on 10/29/2003 5:34:24 AM PST by Poohbah ("Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?" -- Major Vic Deakins, USAF)
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To: Catspaw
They advertise themselves as an anti-gay group

THEY advertise themselves as such, or the media?

23 posted on 10/29/2003 5:39:08 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Prodigal Son
"Geez. How'd you like this Phelps person living in your neighborhood?

BTW, do we even need to excerpt NBC articles?"

I would like to think your first question is rhetorical, not requireing an answer from me. However, just in case: "No, I would not like him living in my neighborhood and I am not supportive of this dolt!"

To the second question: MSNBC. When I went to post, I received the "must excerpt" warning and I tried to correct the post. It didn't work.
24 posted on 10/29/2003 5:42:20 AM PST by CSM (Shame on me for attacking an unarmed person, a smoke gnatzie!)
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To: Sloth
I don't think so... I've never heard of them picketing adulterers

Probably because there's no adultering case out there that has media backing to the extent of the Shepard caes. My point is that by the media calling them an anti-gay group, which they obviously are, they get a specific group enraged.

They are more than an anti-gay group, do you really think there views, which I choose to call hate, are limited solely to gays? If NOT,then WHY are they simply/only called an anti-gay group?

25 posted on 10/29/2003 5:43:42 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: CSM
anti-gay hate group

I like how the article gently equates anti-gay with hate.

26 posted on 10/29/2003 5:44:15 AM PST by meyer
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To: Catspaw
And, trust me--they don't just offend a specific group of people--"gays & lesbians" is your assertion.

Cat, I didn't say they JUST offended a specific group. What I was trying to get across was that by the media calling them an anti-gay group, and ONLY (as far as I have seen) an anti-gay group, that in & of itself is meant to enrage, offend, etc. THAT specific group of people.

27 posted on 10/29/2003 5:46:39 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: I still care
It's just downright mean to try to put up a monument stating a murdered person is going to hell

WHOA! Hold on there, ISC....I am with you on that 100%. I don't think my posts even mentioned that aspect of the story.

Because they call themselves, "God Hates Fags".

They don't call themselves that, it's just what their ignorant minds believe, and what their signs espouse.

28 posted on 10/29/2003 5:50:06 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: CSM
Yeah, my bad. I keep forgetting that NBC is now MSNBC.

Yes, it was rhetorical ;-) Guy sounds like somebody I would really not like to know.

29 posted on 10/29/2003 5:50:12 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: Puppage
Given my husband's family's reaction to Phelps' visit--and his family is quite conservative--Phelps and his family enraged and disgusted them when the Phelps' picketed in Wausau, Wisconsin. Now Phelps may be trying to goad gay and lesbians, but he manages to trigger great loathing in heterosexuals as well.
30 posted on 10/29/2003 5:54:09 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: Puppage
THEY advertise themselves as such, or the media?

Their website is "God Hates Fags." I'm not going to put up a link, but google that, go to their website, read what they say, download a couple of their posters (in PDF format), view their signs from their pickets.

And then go over to their other website and see how they say that the sodomites are to blame for 9/11.

31 posted on 10/29/2003 5:56:56 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: CSM
“Our message is a message of God’s hate, not human hate,” said Marge Phelps, the reverend’s wife

Ahhhh... I never knew that God "Hated"... Maybe it's an Old Testament thingie... anyway... Seems to me, the more I keep wondering if Rev. Phelps is a dupe for the Left. HE seems to do more for THEIR cause, than anything...

32 posted on 10/29/2003 5:57:24 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (The Truth is to see The Gift)
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To: Catspaw
The proposed monument would say, “Matthew Shepard entered Hell, October 12, 1998.”

Sounds like Mr. Phelps likes to be judge, jury, and wishes he could be the executioner. With his attitude and deeds, Phelps may be Judged harshly when he appears before the true Judge.

Somehow, when it comes to the Fred Phelps of the world, the words "false prophets" keeps popping in my head.

33 posted on 10/29/2003 5:57:35 AM PST by auboy (Liberals believe in free speech… theirs not yours.)
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To: CSM
Is the ACLU representing Phelps? Sounds like their kind of guy.
34 posted on 10/29/2003 5:59:33 AM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: Puppage
THEY advertise themselves as such, or the media? </>

I'm guessing it's a self-imposed title...

“Our message is a message of God’s hate, not human hate,” said Marge Phelps, the reverend’s wife

35 posted on 10/29/2003 6:00:58 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (The Truth is to see The Gift)
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To: Catspaw
but he manages to trigger great loathing in heterosexuals as well.

I couldn't agree more.

36 posted on 10/29/2003 6:04:02 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: I still care
Truth. A wonderful and all important principle. Your comments are TRUTH in print. Truth is so important that it is necessary to make us free. Truth is absolute. There is sufficient deception in the public realm, to fool most of the people most of the time, some of the people all the time, and even some of the people that ought to know better.
37 posted on 10/29/2003 6:09:09 AM PST by wita
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: seamole
That's kinda what I was thinking, too.
39 posted on 10/29/2003 7:20:28 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (The Truth is to see The Gift)
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To: Puppage
I find it interesting that they call them only an anti-gay hate group. Most groups would have a name, yet no group name is ever given. If the name of that group is Westboro Baptist Church, then print it. I do not mind a particular church being labeled as a hate group, but without a group name, the story sounds as if this is a much larger anti-gay hate group than it really is.

Five years after University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard was killed, touching off a national dialogue on gay rights, the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas, an anti-gay hate group wants to put up a monument to Shepard’s murder in his hometown. The city doesn’t want it, but it is caught in a legal tangle that involves, of all things, the Ten Commandments.

AT SHEPARD’S FUNERAL in his hometown of Casper, Wyo., Westboro Baptist Church members demonstrated in a park across the street, led by the Rev. Fred Phelps.

Sounds a little different doesn't it? Instead of sounding like a large hate group, it sounds like a kooky little church in Kansas. The media knows how they made it sound and they did it purposefully.

40 posted on 10/29/2003 7:48:29 AM PST by Between the Lines ("What Goes Into the Mind Comes Out in a Life")
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