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To: archy
Shaped charge weapons have a focus distance, determined by the shape of the penetrator cone. In the past RPGs used a inverted conical penetrator, (the innermost part of the cone turns inside out and becomes the leading edge of the penetration stream) which gives moderage penetration over a wide range of detonation distances. This was selected by the russian designers because the germans during wwii used "bazooka plates", thin steel plates to prematurely detonate shaped charge rounds at the wrong focus distance, which limited penetration effectiveness. Fender skirts are the modern expression of the bazooka plates.

Western penetrators have a more complex shape, and detonation at the correct distance is nearly guaranteed by the high quality and uniformity of the detonation mechanism. This gives superior performance (about 10 diameters of penetration) compared to russian weapons (about 6 diameters of penetration).

This indicates to me that either a new design RPG may be out there, or.....someone got hold of a western antitank weapon. Can we all say it together? FRANCE.
5 posted on 10/28/2003 11:54:16 PM PST by donmeaker (Bigamy is one wife too many. So is monogamy.)
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To: donmeaker
Shaped charge weapons have a focus distance, determined by the shape of the penetrator cone.

And the diameter of the charge, which affects the required depth and thickness of the cone to achieve the Monroe Effect's focused blast. That can be counter productive to the aerodynamic shape required for effective flight, one reason why the WWII German Panzerfausts were short ranged, but very effective when they hit.

Additionally, the charge needs to be base detonated, though the noze fuze needs to be able to function even if it strikes the target at a less-than-ideal 90º angle. Typically, as in the Soviet PG-7 warhead or that of the M72 series US and British 66mm LAW rockets, that's accomplished with a piezoelectric crystal that provides a sufficient electrical charge to fire the charge's detonator when crushed into the target at flight speed. In the case of the RPG, the copper liner of the shaped charge is used as one electrical conductor to carry that electrical impulse for firing If the external body of the rocket is smashed into the charge liner, as when the rocket hits chail link fencing rather than solid plate, a short circuit of the firing circuit results and a dud round is the result. In practice, chainlink fencing will disable around 50% of the PG-7 rockets fired into it. M72 LAW rockets, being smaller, more often slip through, but are more often deflected, preventing a solid hit against the armor and thereby also resulting in a dud strike.

-archy-/-


6 posted on 10/29/2003 1:19:54 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: donmeaker
This indicates to me that either a new design RPG may be out there, or.....someone got hold of a western antitank weapon. Can we all say it together? FRANCE.

Not necessarily. The result sounds a lot like the resulting effect from an Israeli Rafeal *Spike-3* ATGM launcher missile hit. They're capable of either *fire and forget* attacks up close, or guided top-attack hits out to 4 KM when under operator guidance till impact; the NunTet-Dandy version is said to achieve hits out to 7.5 KM. And the Israelis know how to build weapons for killing tanks, even an Abrams. The things have been sold to Indonesia, Singapore and Finland, possibly others including Estonia and Serbia, and there's always the possibility that the Jihidists managed to divert one or more directly from Israel via Jordan.


7 posted on 10/29/2003 1:33:07 AM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: donmeaker
Kinnetic impactors with a delay sequence ..*Cutjet have been around for some time.

Russia began to play here when Israel came out with Blazer reactive boxes in the early 80's.

Archy is correct..IDF..Have..France and other Euro countries which are often overlooked when munitions are discussed have man port -fire and forget units.
I would suggest *China as a possible candidate...and here,,they would have stolen the design as they are extremely good at mimic.

These delay sequence cut jet penetrators still require some knowledge of the unit they are matched against[*where its weaknesses are]..and would require a steady hand in the operators slot.

Israel hase been taking hits from top Attack ATGM's ...Merkava modular turret refits have been succesful in matching this..the Merkava 4 forwards IDF's knowledge over past decades.

ATGM's are one thing though....motion sensor mines..which pitch upward and fire a hypervelocity spike into a tanks engine compartment ...in a millisecond as the mine assays the engines heat signature.

U.S. have had this for many years..it is surmised this technology is the future for countries strapped for cash.

Pandoras box..once the tech is out...nations like China can produce for market.

Tanks will not be a fun place to be in the future...soon 152 mm rounds will be fired...turret armor will need to be reconfigured as the larger hypervelocity munitions transform mechanized armies.
Russia's army is not yet sold on going to the 152 tube..but that could change in the future.

**side note...IDF began to play with the NATO standard 105mm round.
what they achieved was amazing..and a great cost measure reality as their Centurions,M-48'S,M-60's and early gen Merkava's could all remain 105 tube.

The Israeli 105 round could wallop like a 120 ..and had distance leg to it.
This also enabled IDF to use funding for targeting suite R and D..of which they have excelled. The toys to kill are out there..getting them into mainstream as per production is the next gen decisions for nations.

68 posted on 11/03/2003 10:29:23 PM PST by Light Speed
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