French Missiles Used in Hotel Attack (And the U.S go to the United Nations)

CNSNews.com ^ | 10.28.03 | CNSNews.com

[patton]

it is the NYT, though...

[TexKat]

The London Sun, is that a reputable paper? It does not have the appearance of one.

[Prodigal Son]

Well, for all intents and purposes, you are correct. NATO is essentially a security/military alliance. If you do not play a part in that side of things, you are effectively not a part of NATO. The French are damnable in the way they do things though. To them, it means something to only withdraw from one portion of the treaty, even if that is the most relevant portion.

It's kind of like one of the original states only ratifying one article of the Constitution but insisting upon being part of the US. That's the French.

[cope]

Mexico Official Urges Economic Balance
NewsMax.com Wires
Monday, Oct. 27, 2003
MORELIA, Mexico -- The global economy is too dependent on growth from the United States, Mexico's treasury secretary said Sunday, calling on finance officials from 20 rich and poor nations to look for a "more balanced and sustainable growth path."
U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow also attended the meeting and sought donations from the 19 other countries to help rebuild post-war Iraq.

Opening the annual meeting of the Group of 20 nations, Mexican Treasury Secretary Francisco Gil Diaz said the two-day event was aimed at finding ways to help the world economy fully recover. He said the dependence on the U.S. economy was one of several "vulnerabilities that should be overcome with the appropriate policies and measures."

Finance ministers were also scheduled to discuss ways to block funding for terrorists during their meeting in Morelia, 130 miles west of Mexico City.

In brief remarks broadcast to journalists, U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said the U.S. economy had been greatly influenced by the war in Iraq, including a spike in oil prices. He said the economy had come to a virtual standstill in February, before the war. The broadcast of the rest of his speech was cut off and unavailable to journalists.

Gil Diaz said ministers would review progress they had made in combatting terrorist funding. He also urged nations to continue efforts at sharing intelligence on terrorists.

"The circle will never be closed for criminals if international information sharing is not strengthened," he said.

Private Meetings

On Sunday, Snow held private meetings with officials from Germany, China, Argentina, Russia, and had more meetings planned with representatives from Mexico, China, Turkey, South Africa and France.

Snow arrived from Madrid, Spain, where he helped persuade nations to pledge $13 billion in new aid to help rebuild Iraq. Still, the figure fell well short of the estimated $56 billion it will cost to restore Iraq to pre-1991 Gulf War conditions, and much of the aid was loans that could saddle Iraq with new debt.

He also was expected to urge Chinese officials to move more quickly to adopt a more flexible currency system. U.S. manufacturers complain that China's currency is undervalued, keeping exports unfairly cheap.

Last month's failed World Trade Organization talks in Cancun aren't on the meeting's official agenda, but ministers are still expected to talk on the sidelines of the G20 about ways to get negotiations back on track. Many of the countries represented in Morelia were key players during the WTO meeting.

Mexican Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez ended the Cancun talks, saying the WTO's 146 member nations had too many differences to reach an agreement on cutting agricultural and other subsidies.

Last year, during a meeting in New Delhi, the G20 agreed to phase out subsidies, knock down trade barriers, and eliminate money for terrorists.

The group is made up of the European Union and 19 countries -- Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Turkey, Britain and the United States. Their economies account for about 80 percent of global income, and the nations comprise more than 60 percent of the world's population.

[Prodigal Son]

It got reported in the New York Times as well (cough). But at least the NYTs listed an "official American source".

Check it out here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1008398/posts?page=5#5

[aShepard]

"They are officially still part of NATO but withdrew from the security/military part of NATO long ago.

Thanks I didn't know that!

??So how can you benefit from being a member of a mutual defense treaty organization, without contributing any mutual defense??

This don't make no sense!

[Prodigal Son]

Well, they still get a say in things. They get to participate in NATO meetings about such things as NATO expansion. For them, it is like getting a free ride. They need not contribute anything in the way of manpower but they still get to complain and bitch- you know? It's like the ex-wife from hell. You're still paying her alimony and she gets to pick your future wives for you.

[TexKat]

It got reported in the New York Times as well (cough). But at least the NYTs listed an "official American source".

That the missiles were French missiles?

[cinFLA]

France is not in NATO - they pulled out years ago - In my not so great memory!

Your memory is not so great.

[Prodigal Son]

Aye. Half were French (new) and half were Russian.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Isn't the French Govt. directly in control of their weapons sales? If these are new missles from France it shows the French had something to hide, like violations of UN mandates!

It all ties into this statement by Dr. Kay in his recent interview on Fox News, regarding his search and findings in Iraq. I keep trying to DRIVE this message home to people, and sadly it is becoming MORE and more relevant. Could we be talking WEAPONS here, like the missles used in today's attacks? Frankly, I think Dr. Kay is talking about a few things.

But the real question is what companies, and what countries? Read on:

SNOW: You also have reports of a number of nations engaged in illegal trade or dual-use technology trade with Iraq. Why won't you tell us who those countries are?

KAY: Because we're continuing to investigate to find the exact details and to be sure that we have absolute accuracy. Also, because we suspect that these same companies have been engaged with other proliferant regimes, so we want to get to the bottom of this.

And let me say, it's not just dual-use. The equipment that we're after and the information we have relates to things that were clearly illegal to sell to Iraq. This is illegal procurement. It's not something that could have other uses. They shouldn't have had it.

SNOW: Were any American companies involved?

KAY: Not that we've discovered to date."

[Prodigal Son]

According to the NYTs. (to qualify my statement)

[TexKat]

Is that in the article you just linked in your post to me?

[Prodigal Son]

It's in post number 5 of that thread.

[1Old Pro]

The French rockets, officers said, were quite new, and likely purchased after the arms embargo was in place.

This is unacceptable. George Bush should come on national TV and ask the French to tell the world how many missles they sold the terrorists of Iraq and other countries.

[Michael81Dus]

Prodigal Son,

I love your posts! That´s the greatest compliment I can make a poster here, and I do it in public! It´s great to have you here and the points you make are well-reasoned and always worth to read (and to agree with).

Be proud of yourself! :-)

Sincerely,

Michael

[aShepard]

That's unbelievable that France can participate in NATO without militarily supporting any of their neighbors, yet we, an ocean away, must come to their defense.

Throw these ungrateful bastards off the UN Security Council!

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

11 missiles failed to fire, either because of electrical or mechanical failure.

Thank God they were crappy French made missiles. Imagine the destruction and loss of life if the missiles were from a competent nation.

[Prodigal Son]

Actually, let me just post the NYTs article here because it appears it has been altered since Destro posted that on that thread...

RAYMOND BONNER and THOM SHANKER

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 26 — An American colonel was killed and at least 16 people were wounded early Sunday when a barrage of air-to-ground missiles from a homemade launchpad slammed into a highly protected hotel where Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz was staying.

American military officials said they did not believe Mr. Wolfowitz was the target but they called the attack carefully planned.

One official said the military had specific intelligence of an imminent attack on the hotel, the Rashid, where senior personnel of the American occupation live and eat, but that no special precautions had been taken.

Mr. Wolfowitz, who arrived here on Friday for brief visit, was one floor above where one of the rockets hit, officials said; he was not hurt.

Officials said the wounded included five American soldiers, seven American civilians working in various Iraqi ministries as part of the American-led effort to rebuild Iraq, and four non-American civilians. The identity of the dead colonel was not immediately released.

The attack, which officials suggested was probably carried out by men loyal to Saddam Hussein, blasted balconies off two rooms and shattered windows elsewhere in the hotel. American military officials said the attack might have been planned as many as two months in advance and involved some surveillance and rehearsal.

For that reason, they said, it was unlikely that Mr. Wolfowitz was a target. His visit was not announced in advance.

Nonetheless, a senior military official said, "We knew this was coming." The official, speaking on the condition that he not be identified, declined to give details, but said several precautionary security measures could have been taken, including moving Mr. Wolfowitz and his delegation out of the hotel, increasing the security alert and increasing patrols around the hotel. None of those things happened, he said.

The missiles were launched from an improvised multirocket platform, a homemade version of the Katyusha system used by Russia, military officials said. The Irish Republican Army has used similar systems.

The launcher was hidden in a blue trailer made to resemble a mobile electricity generator, a ubiquitous item in Baghdad, where electrical service is unreliable. In the quiet of early Sunday morning, a white passenger vehicle towed the trailer down a major street that runs between the hotel and a large park. It was then unhitched at a cloverleaf that had been closed by the Americans for security reasons. The car pulled away. Soon after, at 6:08 a.m., 8 to 10 missiles thudded into the hotel, about 450 yards away, officials said.

The casualties could have been higher; 11 missiles failed to fire because of electrical or mechanical malfunctions. In addition, the wheel base of the trailer had been booby-trapped with explosives, which American soldiers deactivated.

Altogether, the launcher held 40 missile pods, said Brig. Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, commander of the First Armored Division, whose responsibility is the security of Baghdad. General Dempsey spoke Sunday evening at a news conference held in a building in a compound near the Rashid Hotel.

Half the missiles were 68-millimeter, which have a range of two to three miles; the other half were 85-millimeter, with a three- to four-mile range, he said. The smaller ones were French-made, and designed for use by helicopters. The others were Russian. The French rockets, officers said, were quite new, and were probably purchased after the arms embargo was in place. "They were in pristine condition," said one military officer who inspected the rocket tubes and assembly.

Mr. Hussein had weapons of that type, but General Dempsey said he did not know if the missiles used the hotel attack came from Mr. Hussein's arsenal.

General Dempsey described the device as "clever, but not sophisticated." He called it "a science project in a garage with a welder and a battery and a handful of wires."

That such an unsophisticated device could be used against one of the most fortified and well-guarded sites in Baghdad raised questions about the military's ability to secure any major site in Baghdad. The compound is surrounded by high concrete walls, but the missiles were fired over them.

Asked how anyone in Baghdad could feel safe given the attack, the latest in a steady string, General Dempsey said, "Those working the hardest for the Iraqi people are less safe." For those who work with the coalition, trying to rebuild Iraq, he said, "you will be targeted."

He said he was convinced that the attack was linked to the opening of the 14th of July Bridge on Saturday — the trailer was parked on the road leading to the bridge — and to the lifting of the city's curfew, which was suspended by the authorities for Ramadan. "Every move to return Baghdad to some level of normalcy was met by terrorist actions by those who don't want the coalition to succeed," General Dempsey said.

A New York Times reporter traveling with Mr. Wolfowitz was a few rooms from where one of the rockets hit. Looking across the street, he saw the trailer from which the rockets had been fired, and saw one projectile coming at the hotel, trailing sparks.

The rocket that killed the American colonel slammed into the 11th floor, where correspondents traveling with the Wolfowitz delegation were staying. A broken pipe spilled water ankle deep into the corridor, as the hallway filled with smoke and occupants called for medical help.

On a lower floor, one projectile punched a fist-sized hole in the window, wrecking the walls, shattering furniture and wounding at least one of the two occupants.

Guests were evacuated down an emergency inner stairwell, stepping over trails of blood left by the wounded.

After a decline in attacks on the occupation forces in July and August, strikes have increased substantially in the last two months.

Nevertheless, General Dempsey said he was "absolutely" convinced that the security situation here had improved.

No one claimed responsibility for the Rashid attack, but General Dempsey suggested it was probably people who would like to see a return to power of Mr. Hussein, or at least of the Baath Party.

"We have a very good idea of who's attacking us in Baghdad," he said. He said that information came from men who had been captured in the process of preparing attacks and from Iraqi citizens.

He did not provide details, but he largely ruled out foreign terrorists.

"We have not seen any infusion of foreign fighters in Baghdad," he said.

His assertion was somewhat at odds with what the chief civilian administrator in Baghdad, L. Paul Bremer III, said on Sunday. Appearing on the CBS News program "Face the Nation," Mr. Bremer said there continued to be infiltration of Syrians, Sudanese and Yeminis into Iraq through Syria.

At a hastily arranged midmorning news briefing, a defiant Mr. Wolfowitz declared that the attack would not deter the American-led effort to rebuild Iraq. He called the American civilians and military personnel working in Baghdad heroes struggling to halt those he described as "criminals who are trying to destabilize this country" and who "have abused and tortured Iraq for 35 years."

[Prodigal Son]

The link of that:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/26/international/worldspecial/26CND-IRAQ.html?hp