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"Naked" Miss Afghanistan slammed (Shut-Up Burqa Boys, she lives in the Land of the Free)
AFP via Melbourne Herald Sun ^ | 27 October 2003

Posted on 10/26/2003 9:09:04 PM PST by Stultis

"Naked" Miss Afghanistan slammed
AFP
27oct03

PRESIDENT Hamid Karzai's minister for women's affairs yesterday condemned Miss Afghanistan, as Vida Samadzai became the country's first woman in the post-Taliban era to appear in a bikini during a beauty contest in Manila.

"Appearing naked before a camera or television is not women's freedom but in my opinion is to entertain men," Minister Habiba Surabi said.

"We condemn Vida Samadzai, she is not representing Afghanistan's women, and this is not women's freedom."

Surabi said according to Afghan culture women should not demonstrate their worth using their "beauty or bodies" but by their skills and knowledge.

"In the name of women's freedom, what this Afghan girl has done is not freedom but is lascivious," the minister said.

The 25-year-old Afghan contestant, who lives in the United States, is the first Afghan woman in 30 years to participate in the Miss World international beauty contest being held in the Philippines capital this week.

The dark-haired, black-eyed Samadzai, apparently from a Pashtun tribe, was born and raised in Afghanistan but left for the United States in 1996 to escape the extremist Taliban regime which forced women to cover themselves from head to toe.

Under the harsh regime women were not allowed to work outside their homes or go out without a close relative beside them. After the fall of the militia in 2001, an increasing number of women left the burqa, or veil, at home and some took jobs.

The only other Miss Afghanistan was Zohra Daoud, who joined the Miss Universe contest in 1972.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; missafghanistan; pageant
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To: Unam Sanctam
My, my, my...testy, aren't we?

Puritans felt the need to execute alleged "witches". Radical Islam feels the need to murder those not Muslim....or, their brand of Islam. It's rather safe to stay bundled up in late civilization standards of 'modesty'. Insecurity with ones own sexuality and physical appearance; a desire to adhere to rigid standards of apparent morality as defined by religious(?) authority; the subconscious affectation for submission to a controlling body of clerics and morals police. Which is it?

Islam may well be the foretold "Anti-Christ", in the form of not a man, but of a movement. From it's inception, Islam has been a force that demands total submission of all that humans do, think, feel, believe and aspire to. Defense of Islam, in any way, is foreign to liberty and civilization. Islam has proven to be evil incarnate. From its founder through to its present form. Just as Jim Jones twisted the word of God to suit his purposes, Islam twists God to suit its purposes. Far from just overthrowing the Taliban, the goal should have been to stamp out the pseudo-"religion" of Islam. As long as Islam exists, no Jew or Gentile can breathe safe. For Islam's stated goal is to destroy all other beliefs and force the world to follow one mans 'vision' of God. The cult of Muhammed is what threatens us all.

101 posted on 10/27/2003 4:50:52 PM PST by Thumper1960
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To: Thumper1960
I advocate none of what you say, and as a Christian believe that Islam is a false religion. Thus your statements are completely inapposite to anything I have said. However, I don't think that means that we should write off all Afghan Moslems, particularly the ones on our side. Please direct your vile and false slander elsewhere. I shall not respond to your hateful posts again.
102 posted on 10/27/2003 4:56:20 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: joyful1
Why are we proud that our women dress like prostitutes, adulterers, and fornatcators? Why are we happy to introduce it to other cultures?

Who said we are proud? I'm just a bit over 40. I've pissed off more than one female friend by asking why they let their teenage daughters dress like sluts. Of course I know why. I know what's on MTV (even though I can't stand watching that crap myself).

What I AM proud of, however, is living in a free society where people can make these choices, and I can tell them those choices are stupid, and even sick, and they can tell me to take my opinion and shove it.

I DON'T want to live in a society were the popular culture is inhibited, other than by free speech and free association. As ugly as it (often) is, it is also a source and manifestation of both our freedom and our cultural creativity.

Yeah, I know, many will say that the popular culture is not only invidious, but useless and trivial as well. This is a very short sighted view, which fails to take into account how many of the important advances of our civilization ultimately stem from such "trivia". This is pointed out in Virginia Postrel's book The Future And It's Enemies (pgs 182-83, citing research by historian of science and technology Cyril Stanely Smith): The whole of our modern, industrial chemical industry began with the manufacture of synthetic dyes, at a time when colorful clothing was widely denounced as frivilous and decadent. Glass was first blown to make decorative beads, long before it was employed for any utilitarian purpose. Metallurgy began with molding statues, welding with joining parts of statues together, and alloys were first created in the interest of the pleasing colors and textures they lent to decorative items.

In a free society lots of people are going to do things you don't like, say things you don't like, and wear things you don't like. Deal with it. Yes, you can (and even should) deal with it, in part, by speaking or demonstrating against the elements you find most offensive, but you should not forget that these negative things are only among the consequences of a much greater good; that of freedom.

103 posted on 10/27/2003 4:59:23 PM PST by Stultis
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To: Unam Sanctam
Bam!

Gotcha.

104 posted on 10/27/2003 5:01:20 PM PST by Thumper1960
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To: Unam Sanctam
Moreover it is a provocation to Moslem believers

You can be as offended as you want, and complain as much as you want. As soon as you start saying it is provocation, you are starting to condone the Molsem reaction. If it anything other than words of protest, it is too much. Your word choice calling it a "provocation" is what seems to make many question your loyalties...is it freedom of the individual to practice religion or freedom for religious groups to force adherence to their principles that you seek to defend.

If you are saying Moslems have the right to be offended, I would agree. If you are saying they have the right to feel provoked - you are dead wrong.

105 posted on 10/27/2003 5:01:46 PM PST by TheOtherOne
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To: FITZ
Hi FITZ!

I agree with your post...

:>)

But personally, I think women should be more modest and they should be able to make their own decisions on how much of their bodies they show to the world.

I my self am old fashioned.

Although as an artist, I have used models...
106 posted on 10/27/2003 5:02:03 PM PST by Syncro
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To: Stultis
Who the heck said anything about forcing anyone to do anything? One can merely express opinion about immodesty.
107 posted on 10/27/2003 5:03:10 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Syncro
Yes --- I think they should be too ---- and of course the standards for modesty are somewhat cultural --- because I wouldn't call those women in Africa without tops on immodest either. This woman has been living in California for years now --- she's probably adopted some of those standards of modesty ---- she looks modest enough as far as beauty contestants go.
108 posted on 10/27/2003 5:04:54 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Unam Sanctam
Do we even know if the woman in question is a muslim? If she's not ---- then the muslims really don't need to worry about her.
109 posted on 10/27/2003 5:06:03 PM PST by FITZ
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To: TheOtherOne
If this woman is a muslim --- and the other muslims don't like her outfit --- then they should kick her out of the muslim church.
110 posted on 10/27/2003 5:07:27 PM PST by FITZ
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To: TheOtherOne
Dear sir,

I have no idea what you mean about "loyalty". In what way have I been disloyal to anything? There are two parts to what I am saying. One, I personally think this kind of clothing immodest and sluttish and demeaning to women. That is my personal opinion. I am not advocating preventing anyone from wearing anything, although several posters have falsely accused me of doing just that. Secondly, I would just point out to those who simply write off all Moslems with hatred, rather than the specific Islamist terrorists, that the Afghan government is on our side. They are our friends and allies. We owe them some respect for their own culture and customs, to the extent it does not mistreat women or others. This woman is in the US and can do what she wants, as I have written in this thread before. I think, however, that the entire episode is unwise, as it merely reinforces Taliban propaganda that by establishing a liberal democracy one is basically establishing Western moral decadence. I don't believe that liberal democracy has to automatically mean the other, but the Taliban and Osama do, and I certainly would not bolster their propaganda when we are trying to win hearts and minds.
111 posted on 10/27/2003 5:10:51 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam
I don't know whay you mean about a bikini being worn as "provocation" so we are even.
112 posted on 10/27/2003 5:17:05 PM PST by TheOtherOne
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To: Unam Sanctam
One can merely express opinion about immodesty.

But you didn't merely do that. You expressed the opinion that our cultural tolerance of immodesty is damaging to our perception in the muslim world, and implied that we should give a flip.

113 posted on 10/27/2003 5:29:24 PM PST by Stultis
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To: Stultis
Perhaps, you should merely hold Islam in high regard.
114 posted on 10/27/2003 5:31:24 PM PST by Thumper1960
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Comment #115 Removed by Moderator

To: Stultis
I never once said anyone should be forced to do anything. I did say we should be concerned about winning the hearts and minds of the Afghan people, who are in fact on our side against the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
116 posted on 10/27/2003 5:35:53 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Yehuda
I am not a Moslem and reject Islam as a false religion.
117 posted on 10/27/2003 5:37:38 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Yehuda
I am glad that our administration is doing something proactive to try and change the dynamics in the Middle East for the long term, and to try to promote decency, human values and democracy there. Frankly, I think that is a better approach than simply saying that all Moslems and all aspects of Islam (and not just the jihadi, terrorist elements) are bad and that nothing will ever change in the Middle East. What President Bush is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is a policy of hope for a better future. What you and others on this thread seem to advocate is a policy of despair.
118 posted on 10/27/2003 5:40:52 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Stultis
Well Good for her!!! Islam has done a great job keeping its followers Ignorant. What a crock of crap that women cannot be educated. This poor girl will likely be stoned to death if she returns so I hope she makes it big and thumbs her nose at them all.
119 posted on 10/27/2003 5:42:10 PM PST by JamesA (Stand together, stand your ground and don't back down. Its ours to lose!)
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To: Yehuda
"Some" here don't want to offend the Afghan Muslims by failing to criticize the Afghani woman who participated in a Manila beauty pageant and who bared her navel.

As if bin-Laden/Taliban/Arab inhabitants of Eretz Israel need any additional reasons to hate the West and Christians and Jews. Kowtowing to the sensitivities of those whose core beliefs include crushing your religions and civilizations is akin to Chamberlain kneeling at the feet of Der Fuhrer and sacrificing millions of innocents in a vain attempt at self preservation.

120 posted on 10/27/2003 5:49:41 PM PST by Thumper1960
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