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I don't think this guy should have fired his gun at a door knocker. What say you?
1 posted on 10/26/2003 4:41:30 AM PST by lifacs
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To: lifacs
Reading through the posts this far, the thing that strikes me is that parents are derelict to allow 16 year olds to be out after 11pm, and extremely derelict to allow 16 year olds to be out after midnight.
144 posted on 10/26/2003 7:52:52 AM PST by OK
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To: lifacs
From the information in the article, it appears that the homeowner had no right to shoot the kid. There has to be more to the story.

Twice within the last three years I have been awakened to late night hard banging on my door.

The first one was the week after 9/11, 12:30am. I went to the door and yelled "who is it?". A accented voice yelled back "Pizza delivery". Without opening the door, I sent him away. Loaded 12 guage was trained at the door the whole time.

About a year later at 3:00 in the morning, I was awakened the same way, this time a guy was yelling like a mad man, "HELP, YOU HAVE TO HELP!" Turned out to be a drunk that had taken out a telephone pole with his 4 wheel drive about a half mile down the road. He tried to drive it home, but only made it as far as our place. I told him to hang on a minute. I verified the damaged truck with a flashlight through a second story window. The people across the street had heard the commotion and were also flashing a light at the truck from thier doorstep. I went down and opened the door, shotgun ready and aimed. The guy was in shock and a bloody mess. I never let him inside, and never let go of the gun until the cops got there.

While both of these guy's were stupid (and the first one was out and out suspicious)niether one died for their stupidity.

152 posted on 10/26/2003 8:05:37 AM PST by OnAMission
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To: lifacs
I agree. Excessive.
161 posted on 10/26/2003 8:13:42 AM PST by poindexter
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To: lifacs
It's tragic, very tragic.

But the solution is simple. Incredibly simple.

Don't go and intentionally disturb people you don't know "for fun". Leave people alone. Don't assume that someone is going to act in a particular way. Mind your own business, have the party at your house, go to the school carnival, and whatever else. That's all good. But why do you have to intentionally wake the whole neighborhood up at midnight?

Someone in that house might be sick. There may be a sleeping baby with colic who is now screaming to the top of it's lungs and suffering. Maybe an insomniac just took his sleeping pills and finally fell into slumber for the first time in three days. Someone might have had a really, really bad day for any number of reasons. You don't know.

Why selfishly interject yourself into other people's lives? Not only is it incredibly impolite, but it's risky nowadays. Is ringing a doorbell and running so fun that it is really worth that risk?

Personally I don't see the entertainment value whatesover. What do you get out of doing that?

There are other ways for kids to entertain themselves.

The shooter made a really bad decision, but he really didn't ask to make the decision. There was no good reason for him to make the decision. It was forced upon him minutes after being awakened in the middle of the night.

If you have kids, tell them to leave people alone and behave themsleves. You never know what the next guy is going to do. It's not worth it.

169 posted on 10/26/2003 8:17:56 AM PST by Stu Cohen
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To: lifacs
Punk should not have been trespassing on another's property. Sad that it happened. But the homeowner should not be charged.

parents, keep track of your kids and make sure they are not out wondering the streets in the middle of the night.

172 posted on 10/26/2003 8:20:25 AM PST by mrfixit514
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To: lifacs
Even in Texas, with one of the most liberal self-defense laws in the nation (you can use deadly force against someone whom you think is stealing or attempting to steal property at night), this man did not use lethal force appropriately.

He deserves at least a manslaughter charge.

177 posted on 10/26/2003 8:23:36 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from a shelter. You will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: lifacs
If they were playing ring the bell and run, why was the kid still there when the owner got to the door?
183 posted on 10/26/2003 8:29:16 AM PST by Woahhs
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To: lifacs
I don't think this guy should have fired his gun at a door knocker. What say you?

No kidding, This guy's got to do some jailtime. I mean what the #$^$ was he thinking? If he was fearful, why open the door in the first place?

If the kid tried to force his way into the house, then yes it would be justified. But you cannot shoot someone just because they knock on your door late at night.

202 posted on 10/26/2003 9:11:45 AM PST by Sci Fi Guy
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To: lifacs
What a terrible story. Kids in my neighborhood ring the doorbell and run every once in a while, and although aggravating, we just go back to bed. If we felt threatened by someone outside our home, we would call the police. Certainly shooting this boy was not something that the man should have done. He should be arrested soon, I would think.
215 posted on 10/26/2003 9:25:55 AM PST by ladyinred (Talk about a revolution, look at California!!! We dumped Davis!!!)
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To: lifacs
You don't kill someone for ringing your doorbell.

This guy is obviously unhinged and should be in a straight jacket before he does it again.

235 posted on 10/26/2003 10:09:34 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Salvation
This young man was in our new priest's former parish. He is very hurt and I can see why. Please pray for his family and our priest, Father Andy, as well.
249 posted on 10/26/2003 10:56:10 AM PST by tiki
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To: lifacs
Certainly not. His string of bad choices began when he opened the door. Being armed, he held a much greater responsibility. He failed at every juncture. He didn't assess the situation properly. He didn't identify the intended target. He opened his door. A big no-no. He apparently didn't turn on an exterior light. He didn't, at least, first call 911 if he felt in mortal danger. Manslaughter may be the least of what he should be charged with.
252 posted on 10/26/2003 11:13:15 AM PST by Thumper1960
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To: lifacs
There has to be more to this story than is being told.
When you are doing a 'knock and run' at 12:30 AM why are you even still in SIGHT when someone answers the door?

Admittedly, the homeowner shouldn't be shooting someone without clear sight of the person but just WHAT was the kid still doing at the door.
Most of the time, at 12:30 at night, it will take a couple of minutes to answer the door. That gives the kids plenty of time to scoot and get gone.

There are things here that are not being told on one side or the other, or both sides, that would play into this case.

262 posted on 10/26/2003 12:20:21 PM PST by Just another Joe (FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: lifacs; demlosers; Trickyguy
Darwinian selection.

Home invaders may knock.

If this "kid" was holding anything, or holding a hand behind his back bringing it forward, BOOM. Righteous shoot.

Sad given the facts after the fact, but righteous.

Stupid kids are usually under supervised by their parents. His parents will mourn and get angry, but probably at the wrong person.

Stupid pranks can have fatal outcomes.
264 posted on 10/26/2003 12:30:42 PM PST by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: lifacs
Tragic incident. IIRC a similar shooting was in the news a few years ago involving a Japanese student (or exchange student) and a homeowner with a 44mag, on/near Halloween I think?? Except in that case there apparently, in fact, was no malicious intent on the part of the victim.

As has already been covered, antagonizing people at midnight on purpose is a hazardous endeavour, best avoided.

While the homeowner may be legally vindicated, killing someone who never intended you harm will be devastating psychologically - assuming reports of the victims "innocent prank" are accurate.

273 posted on 10/26/2003 1:44:33 PM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: lifacs
From the piece:

""What is so important that you are defending that you need a gun?" said Quiroga"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This lady is a fine Sheeple specimen.

274 posted on 10/26/2003 1:51:50 PM PST by Osage Orange (How come my Dad...never told me about the nose hair problem?)
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To: lifacs
"How can they call that self-defense?" said a family member who asked not to be identified. "If they thought it was a burglar, what kind of burglar knocks?"

A burglar looking to see if the homeowner is there or whether the coast was clear.

Having said that, judging only from what I've read, it sounds like the homeowner used bad judgment shooting the kid.

Now having said that, what if the kid is pretty big, it says he is in the article, had what looked like a weapon, was belligerent and didn't follow the homeowner's commands like asking him to back off or something along those lines and instead was trying to push his way into the house?

Here's the official statement: When Levin, a Palm Beach County businessman who lived alone, was awakened from his sleep by a knock at the door early Saturday, he armed himself with a handgun and answered it, deputies said. He told deputies he saw someone he believed was holding a weapon.

Levin fired one shot, hitting Drewes, according to deputies. The boy ran into a neighbor's yard and collapsed.

"He feared for his life," Carhart said of Levin, adding that the teenager was 6-feet-2 and 210 pounds. "So he's a big 16-year-old."

It seems to me that there just might possibly be something rather important left out of that statement. If the kid was playing door bell ditch, aren't you supposed to be gone when the door is answered?

Was there a possible beef between the two? Maybe threatening words were exchanged. The key thought to justify any firing is, "Am I in fear for me or my family's life?"

I don't have a problem with him answering the door armed, It's probably not a stretch to think it might be a little late for Girl Scouts selling cookies although it could be the software salesman from the CA commercial, Soooo, how much software do you want to buy...

It looks like four or more possible scenarios:

1) Homeowner panicked and killed an innocent kid whose only crime was possibly bad judgment.

2) The kid WAS carrying a weapon, although the police didn't find one.

3) Either person or both were on some drug that impaired their judgment.

4) The two might not exactly have been friends so the kid was messing with the guy.

I know it sounds cold hearted but I'm hoping that the homeowner made the correct choice for his sake although it looks bad for him. Especially after re-reading the article, the sixteen year old kid, Drewes doesn't exactly sound like a gang banger. Here are some quotes:

" A shattered Drewes family Saturday described Mark as an A student and soccer player, the type of kid who easily made friends with just about everyone he met. More relatives from Brazil are expected to arrive today, along with Mark's father, Gregory, who is captain of a private yacht and was in France Saturday."

"Family contends teen was shot in back"

"The sheriff's office would not release the name of the teenager who was with Drewes Saturday morning. Nor would it confirm the family's assertion that morgue officials told them Saturday afternoon that Drewes was shot in the back."

After first reading it, it sounded like the shooting was justified, now after re-reading it a few more times, it sounds like a tragic mistake that cost a promising kid his life. It doesn't sound like the homeowner is a cold blooded killer, more like he panicked and made a deadly wrong decision even though he has a CCW which means he has some training..

What a heartbreaking story for everyone involved.

286 posted on 10/26/2003 2:36:41 PM PST by Lx (Vote for Hillary because Satan wasn't born here although his daughter is eligible.)
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To: lifacs
"How can they call that self-defense?" said a family member who asked not to be identified. "If they thought it was a burglar, what kind of burglar knocks?"

The kind of burglar who wants to determine if anyone is at home, or is initiating a home invasion.
If I had to knock on a strangers door late at night I would step back (and hopefully be in the light) after knocking.
As an aside, what kind of parent allows their kids to go around the neighborhood at midnight ringing doorbells and knocking on doors?

303 posted on 10/26/2003 3:03:38 PM PST by R. Scott
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To: lifacs
I did the very same thing forty years ago with my cousins at a family get-together. We ran into one of the cars on the street to hide, then had a flashlight and a 45 stuck in our faces by an angry neighbor, who then marched us all in to our parents. We never rang doorbells again, but I still had a feeling that the guy over-reacted.
314 posted on 10/26/2003 3:20:34 PM PST by man of Yosemite ("When a man decides to do something everyday, that's about when he stops doing it.")
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To: lifacs
If they thought it was a burglar, what kind of burglar knocks?"

Home invasion. I feel no sympathy for the crack head.

318 posted on 10/26/2003 3:36:01 PM PST by SwankyC
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