Is Terri Schiavo Dead? Eat, drink, and vegetate

Reason ^ | 10-23-03 | Ronald Bailey

[ambrose]

October 23, 2003

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate

Ronald Bailey

Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

[Legerdemain]

Of which only the first three years (at most) were spent on thera py.

Seems like a long time to try therapy on cvs....

[drlevy88]

To keep her as active as possible would at least preserve the status quo while he allegedly looked for the miracle fix.

[Legerdemain]

mmmmm...i am wondering at this point if Terri's parents cried foul after the discontinuation of therapy....haven't heard about that yet......just wondering.....

[george wythe]

Documentation of your allegation please? It appears that Felos has been relentlessly going after Hammesfahr for some years, but that he succeeded is news to me.

Read this thread.

I have carefully documented everything.

Dr. Hammesfahr is on probation as easily proven by my previously posted links to the Florida Department of Health. The fine, court courts totaling over $64,000 dollars are also available in the Florida Department of Health website, as previously linked by me.

The order to perform community service is also there.

As for the Nobel nomination, some time back someone posted a link to a PDF image of the nominatory letter from a Congressman.

Who posted this confidential information? Was it authorized by Dr. Hammesfahr?

Do self-promoters reveal confidential information to advance their public standing, while ignoring their ethical complaints, fines, and punishments?

[First_Salute]

At Statement by Michael Schiavo --- posted at FR, Oct. 21, 2003, by Auntie Mame --- Reply 171 by giggles ---

"Matters Of Life And Death -
Terri Wants To Live
Family Reveals Secret Therapy Sessions Held For
Brain-Disabled Woman Scheduled To Die
By Sarah Foster
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
10-15-3

Terri Schindler-Schiavo does not want to die. She would like to go home. And she tried to convey this to her father in no uncertain terms by sitting bolt upright and trying to get out of her chair when told she might be killed, her family has revealed.

The stunning news was released at noon Eastern today by Terri's father, Robert Schindler, at the 'round-the-clock vigil outside the Woodside Hospice facility in Pinellas Park, Fla., where his daughter's court-ordered death by starvation is scheduled to begin tomorrow at 2 p.m. Eastern. At that time, her husband and legal guardian Michael Schiavo is scheduled to give the order to disconnect the 39-year-old brain-disabled woman's feeding tube that has provided her with sustenance for the past 13 years.

In an interview a few hours earlier, Schindler described the incident to WorldNetDaily. He said he was holding a cell phone to Terri's ear as she listened intently to the speaker, propped in her jerry-chair at about a 30-degree angle. Suddenly she sat up straight and tried to get out of her chair, despite her weak legs and muscles that were slack from lack of exercise.

His daughter's response stunned Schindler, who grabbed the phone and asked, "My God, what did you tell her?"

The speaker said he had warned, "If you don't get up and get out of there, you're going to die there."

"He was ecstatic when I told him what Terri had tried to do," Schindler said.

And so was Schindler. It was part of a covert rehabilitation program the desperate father and Galaxy Wave Group - a therapeutic company on the cutting-edge of medical technology - devised for Terri in a bold attempt to bring her to a point of recovery where even Florida judges would realize they could not allow her to be starved.

Beginning in late November last year and continuing until the end of February, Terri received daily, hour-long therapy sessions by telephone with company president Dr. Joe Champion or one of his therapists.

While Schindler held the phone to his daughter's ear, they would talk with her, giving her instructions and tasks: move your left arm, move your hand, and so on.

"We started right around Thanksgiving," Schindler recalled. "The first day Dr. Champion listened to the sounds she was making and said he felt it wouldn't be long before she was talking. That was the objective."

The therapy sessions lasted through February, but were interrupted by bouts of flu and other illnesses. One particularly severe illness caused her to relapse.

The "tough love" of telling Terri what lies in store for her was tried several times to stimulate her to work hard.

In a signed affidavit read at the press conference Champion described one of the sessions.

"In December of 2002, I confronted Ms. Schindler with the 'truth' and told her that unless she helped me in returning her from the comatose state that she was in that she was going to die a horrid death," he wrote. "I explained in detail that they would remove the single tube that was providing her nutrition and she would slowly die of starvation. At this point, it was reported by her father that she sat up in bed and became teary eyed."

That Terri understands her own mortality and reacts so strongly when threatened runs counter to the official notion that she is oblivious to her surroundings and will not even know she is being dehydrated and starved to death.

Shiavo's attorney, George Felos, a well-known "right-to-die" advocate, said the claims of improvement that the Schindlers have been making in the last few weeks are impossible.

"There is no cognition, no consciousness," he told the Tampa Tribune.

He further explained why no effort was made to spoon-feed her.

"She simply does not have the ability to take food or water by mouth," he said. "If they tried that, she would aspirate it and suffer an infection that would likely prove fatal."

To corroborate Schindler's account and for further details, WorldNetDaily contacted the person who worked with Terri via telephone. He agreed to be interviewed, but requested his name not be used.

According to "Mr. Smith," Terri was able to move her hand, her arm, her leg on command. She couldn't speak, but she followed instructions.

"The bottom line is she is not vegetative, the way the husband and the side the court has gone with want to portray her," Smith said. "She definitely has some brain damage and severe problems, but she is not a vegetable."

"The problem for Terri is that she can do things, but not on a consistent basis. One day she couldn't, another day she couldn't or wouldn't," he explained. "I can't tell you the reasons, but Terri has her good days and bad days. On a good day she can respond appropriately with no problems. She understands."

Some days are extremely good - like the day she tried to get out of her chair.

"The way Bob [Schindler] described it to you is exactly correct," Smith said. "She just about got out of that chair."

As he tells it: "I was telling her she has to work with us. I couldn't tell you my exact words now; it's been a year. But I was explaining to her that she needed to work with me, that if we could get her to the point to where she could prove to people that she understood, she could get out of there and go home with her parents. I was explaining to her that she had to work with us and respond or they were going to let her die. That's when she tried to get out of the chair."

Smith said they stopped the sessions when he had to leave the area for a couple of months and were not resumed on his return.

It is clear to Schindler that the therapy was working, but until now he has not wanted to talk about it. He could not even bring it up in court as evidence, because it possibly violated a court order.

The Schindlers had reason to suspect that their efforts to help Terri would not be appreciated and that Schiavo might even obtain a court order banning them from her room, as he had done in the past. At one point, he banned Terri's brother and sister from her room for five months simply because they asked the nurse to try and give her some pudding. But there were other instances.

At the initial trial in January 2000, the Schindlers' attorney at the time, Pamela Campbell, introduced into evidence a video of Terri made by a friend of her sister, Suzanne Schindler. It was shown on television news, and three doctors who saw it contacted Robert Schindler saying that they did not believe his daughter was in a persistent vegetative state, but that they wanted to examine her to be sure.

Schindler said he took each of them into her room, and they tested her reactions to stimuli. They found she was definitely not in a persistent vegetative state, that she was cognizant and could recognize her family, because when she saw members of her family she would smile and showed signs of recognition.

All three said they believed Terri had the ability to swallow because she was not drooling. The affidavits were sent to probate Judge George Greer requesting him to allow a swallowing test, which he summarily denied.

Greer accepted the affidavits but did not change his mind.

Schiavo was furious that a video had been made of Terri and doctors had been taken to visit her. In response to his demands, Greer issued an order banning further videotaping and any still photography, and a list of "approved" visitors was drawn up. The list was relatively long over 40 names but there was a catch. Visitors could only see Terri if accompanied by a family member. This meant even Terri's priest, Monsignor Thaddeus Malanowski, did not have normal access to her.

Schiavo and attorney Felos decided that greater controls were needed. In April 2000, they moved Terri surreptitiously from the nursing home that had been her home for six years to the Hospice of the Florida Sun Coast, a place intended for people in the last stages of an illness.

Regulations generally prohibit a hospice from taking a patient who is not terminally ill and expected to live longer than six months to a year. But Felos was chairman of the board of directors of the hospice and was able to arrange for her admission. He resigned his position shortly thereafter.

A year later, in April 2001, her death by dehydration was ordered to begin, and the day her feeding was stopped her brother and sister came by with a spoon and a cup of pudding, asking a nurse to try to feed her by mouth. The nurse refused and reported the request to others. When Schiavo found out he demanded that Bobby and Suzanne be removed from the list of approved visitors, and Greer rubberstamped his request.

"We were trying to play by the rules," Bobby told WorldNetDaily. "But that didn't matter. We were kicked off the list anyway."

Terri was 60 hours without food or water before a different judge issued an emergency stay because new evidence had come to light, and her feeding was resumed.

The evidence was strong enough for a stay, but not strong enough to end Schiavo's efforts. A series of appeals followed, and in November 2001, the 2nd District Court of Appeals ordered an evidentiary hearing held in the fall of 2002.

Five months following their banishment from the Hospice, Bobby and Suzanne Schindler had their visiting rights restored, but only on condition that they not attempt any spoon-feeding.

"I don't want anyone trying to feed that girl," Greer thundered.

Greer did not specifically place audio-taping and therapy-by- telephone on the list of banned activities, but experience had taught the Schindler family that it was best to keep such efforts to themselves rather than run the risk of angering Schiavo and having their visiting rights suspended.

As WorldNetDaily reported, the Schindlers have been fighting with their son-in-law for 10 years over the lack of care and therapy Schiavo provided for their daughter, who suffered massive brain damage when she collapsed at her home 13 years ago under mysterious circumstances at the age of 26.

The contentious family dispute escalated into a major euthanasia battle in May 1998, when Schiavo petitioned the Florida courts for permission to end his wife's life by disconnecting her feeding tube, insisting she is in a "persistent vegetative state" and that in casual conversations she had told him she would not want to be kept alive "artificially." Although Terri breathes on her on and maintains her own blood pressure, she requires a simple tube into her abdomen to her stomach for nourishment and hydration.

Although Terri's parents and siblings have claimed for years that she recognizes them and tries to talk, and over a dozen prominent doctors and therapists have stated under oath that she is not in a persistent vegetative state and with therapy could be rehabilitated, a handful of doctors have testified she is "vegetative." They claim her expressions and vocalizations are simply reflex actions and she will never regain consciousness. Despite a scarcity of expert testimony and evidence for Schiavo's position, the Florida courts have consistently sided with him and Felos.

When the seven-member Florida Supreme Court in August turned down an petition by the Schindlers to review the case, the way was clear for Schiavo to order his wife starved to death.

On Sept. 17, Greer, of the Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Court, scheduled Oct. 15 as the day Terri's feeding tube would be removed.

Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry is coordinating the vigil. He advises anyone who wants to help Terri to telephone Gov. Jeb Bush and urge him to instruct the Department of Children and Families, which enforces standards of hospice care, to do their own investigation to see if she has been getting proper care and rehabilitation.

"Which we know she has not and will not if they take her tube away," said Terry. "And when they find she has not, then Bush can order them to assume guardianship. They must take the guardianship away from the husband."

 

[snickeroon]

It's amazing that you keep writing to others what you could more aptly apply to your own views.

Her mother may not have a "legal" right, but she should. Why? Because there needs to be a full investigation of the circumstances surrounding Terri's collapse 13 years ago. With so many facts coming to light regarding the status of their marriage (which evidently was failing), as well as his past pattern of abuses there is enough available to make a substantial investigation worthwhile. No, I don't like him. Nor do I feel he has her best interest at heart, as evidenced by almost every action he has taken in the last 13 years....from denying her last rites, to not allowing treatment, to placing her in a hospice like no other I've ever heard of, to keeping her parents away from her...

If you believe her vocal wishes should be given highest priority, then you might want to know that she wanted a divorce. Maybe the courts should allow that to happen.

I came into this discussion late, so I did not know you were making "end table" an acceptable compromise to the alternative "Veg..." Either way, in this instance, I'm not the one who "reaps what I sow," YOU are.

By the way, putting the word "husband" in quotes is my way of calling attention to the fact that he acts like one ONLY when it suits him. After all, he has a child by another woman and a baby on the way.

As for the feeding tubes, I am aware it is not a matter for me to decide, but it is also not a matter for YOU to decide. We are simply stating personal opinions and beliefs and I just can not wrap my mind around starving a person to death because you deem her life to be of no worth. YOU don't know if she dreams or has thoughts and feelings. I just know that as long as that possibility exists she deserves to have the opportunity to have sustenance. It is far from disingenuous, it is the TRUTH. Ever had an operation? Did they put you to sleep? Give you oxygen? Should they have turned it off because you could not carry on a viable conversation while asleep?

As for the "catch-phrase"---as long as there is life there is hope" being a moot point. It is NOT. It was the definitive statement she made to more than one friend about the case of Karen Quinlan. And is as valid (in fact MORE valid, because it was WITNESSED) than her "husbands" lame reason for taking away the feeding tube.

As for the fact that you think the parents made a poor case, maybe they did. When your flesh and blood, your CHILD changes from a vibrant, energetic, young woman to a state where you don't know what the next day will bring....your hands are tied by the "husbands" cold, insensitive directives (and quite possibly is motivated to make decisions based on a need to hide facts), and frankly you are in totally unfamiliar medical / legal territory, very few of us would be able to present a compelling case. This does NOT negate the fact that her parents deserve the option of paying for any means possible that might allow their daughter to progress.

Terri DID NOT die thirteen years ago. She is still alive. The fact that she is still alive seems to be an inconvenience to some and a great threat to others who want the "right to die." There would be no argument were she not still alive. What I said was that it is NO ONE'S RIGHT to decide her fate but HERS!!!!

As for my "emotional" response...well, I'm not going to apologize for reacting with emotion to an emotional issue. I could lay the entire argument out in logic, and you would attempt to shoot it down as well, because you (for whatever reason) can't understand that we each have a right to life when not brain dead. And she is NOT brain dead. Why you are threatened by this I do not know, but people with your view really bother me. Obviously , I do not buy into the "right to die" propaganda. If you want to terminate yourself, fine. Just stay away from my personal rights.

As for calling others "imposters," "Uncle Tom's," or "Trolls"....all YOUR words.... I can disagree with you without calling you names, ESPECIALLY names of that ilk. As for the GOP not being "truly the power it could be...." that's a sad, defeatist way of looking at conservatism. No political party will ever reach its full potential with mindsets like yours.

Finally, as for the persecution of Christians......bring it on. I am not intolerant, but am a soldier in God's army, and follow the Holy Bible as the inerrant word of God. Having said that, you will be in my prayers and May God Bless.

[TaxRelief]

The discontinuation of therapy at the same time that Michael received a about a million dollars to continue her therapy. I'll bet they cried, "Foul"!

[drlevy88]

Wait a big hairy minute sir. I went to the page and though Google showed "hammesfahr" as a search term, the name itself does not appear. Netscape "Find in page" also comes up empty.

[drlevy88]

The fine, court courts totaling over $64,000 dollars are also available in the Florida Department of Health website, as previously linked by me.

I went there. Name does not appear in document. That's the facts sir.

[george wythe]

Do you even read what you post?

You posted an article showing that the Schindlers fell victims to a quack outfit.

From the quack outfit website we learn:

The scientists at Galaxy Wave Group are not medical doctors. The operators of the ADAM technology do not diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any medical, psychological or emotional condition. These statements and the ADAM Technology have not been reviewed or approved by the FDA or any other government agencies or authorities.

[george wythe]

Try again.

Obviously, you're having trouble using a computer.

[drlevy88]

This is boilerplate required by FDA. Granted GWG is probably a big sugarfrosted flake, but any treatment, no matter how good in absolute reality, that doesn't get the FDA's OK, has to be called a non-treatment.

[drlevy88]

No, I tried it three times. It ain't there until you prove it is.

[First_Salute]

Yes and thank you for asking.

 

Posted in Reply 477, above, and here again in brief:

Over at Continuation for Request of Intervention on behalf of Terri Schiavo, posted to FR on Oct. 27, 2003, at 4:57 P.M. EST ---

Criminal Investigation of Michael Schiavo

[snip]

5) Michael has enlisted the services of a new doctor, Stanton Tripodis, who has 5 malpractice suits against him. Clearly, Michael is attempting to provide sub-standard care for his wife.

Case no. 97007946C1 filed 11-25-97
Case no. 94003739C1 filed 6-27-94
Case no. 95000873C1 filed 2-14-95
Case no. 96001434C1 filed 3-6-96
Case no. 98002289C1 filed 4-7-98

 

[HiTech RedNeck]

The Netscape searches don't work in this kind of document. You will notice that even though it says "Minutes" at the top, a search for "minutes" finds nothing.

[george wythe]

It's at Page 16.

Do a google search yourself by clicking here:

www.google.com


Copy and paste these key words, in case you also have difficulty spelling:


hammesfahr william probation


The second displayed document contains the information, starting on page 16.

The page 16 comes after page 15.

The cardinal numbers start on 1, then go 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and then 16.

[drlevy88]

The cardinal numbers start on 1, then go 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and then 16.

My you don't have a problem talking down to people do you?

[george wythe]

Thank you for posting outlandish accusations that the Law Enforcement already decided are baseless

Grasping at straws to defame a man's character because he made a different decision from the Schindlers' preference.

[george wythe]

My you don't have a problem talking down to people do you?

I'm sorry it came out that way. I thought I was being humorous and failed. I apologize.

I assume you do know how to use a computer, but I'm guessing that you probably mispelled "Hammesfahr" in your Netscape search function.

[HiTech RedNeck]

How do we know they are "outlandish" rather than simply not legally proven?

For that matter, what exactly did Hammesfahr try to sell or promote, and to whom, that earned him this slap on the wrist from the medical board? Now that would be useful to know. We know much more about the Schiavo case than about this.