Jury must decide whether pastor acted reasonably

Anchorage Daily News ^ | Published: October 24, 2003)

[skeptoid]

Jury must decide whether pastor acted reasonably MIELKE: Defense, prosecution rest in case against preacher.

A pistol-packing preacher used deadly force to defend an unoccupied building containing little of value and killed two men who were just trying to get away, prosecutor Bob Collins said Thursday as the case against Big Lake minister Phillip Mielke wrapped up and went to the jury.

[skeptoid]

Links to previous posts:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/926552/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/928881/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/977525/posts

ADN link has pic of perp.

[gcruse]

AFAIAC, the burglars are the perps.

[verity]

Unless the preacher is an epicopalian. ;~)

[Chad Fairbanks]

"You don't take a gun to protect some old doughnuts. ... Those are not the actions of a reasonable person."

Old dounuts, a pair of socks I never wear, whatever. If you are in my house uninvited, and I have a gun and I tell you to stop, and you keep coming then I don't care WHAT you came to get - you won't get what you were expecting...

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

I'm pretty much in agreement- although I would shoot ONLY if the morons were actually in MY house, and I felt afraid for my life or my family.

This is a tough case- I think the prosecutor has a point about this defendant seeking this confrontation needlessly. He had a lot of alternatives. (I would NOT shoot someone stealing my unoccupied car, for instance- I wouldn't even draw my pistol on them. Because THIS is what happens after the shooting- lawyers get all your money, and you stand a fair chance of winding up in prison).

Call me a wuss, but the pistol I carry is only to defend my life or my family. I'm not being paid to rid the world of druggie scum.

[Cicero]

He had a perfect right to protect his church from thieves and vandals--or possibly arsonists--and in the clinch he had a perfect right to defend himself.

Only a perfect liberal would think that you have an obligation to let people rob or vandalize your property as long as it's only a church that's in question.

[RatSlayer]

The moral of the story as I see it is "Always have a throwdown.". YMMV.

[BenLurkin]

He noted Mielke's testimony that he once avoided talking to two drunks loitering in the church parking lot because he wasn't armed. "Does a reasonable person feel they need a gun to approach another person?"

ANSWER: Under those circumstances, of course!

Perhaps, IMHO, this prosecutor either is a black belt or else he's never seen life in the big city.

Drunken strangers in a parking lot = situation well worth avoiding.

[2timothy3.16]

My pastor carries a gun, I would vote NOT GUILTY if I were on the jury!

[VRWC_minion]

Did the glove fit ?

[VRWC_minion]

He may have made a mistake by going into the Church to begin with but the events that occured after that are reasonable.

[Chad Fairbanks]

You and I are in agreement...

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

"He may have made a mistake by going into the Church to begin with but the events that occured after that are reasonable."

OK, at the risk of starting another war on FR, let me explain. When you are armed, you assume a tremendous (literally a life-and-death) responsibility. There are lots of things that can go wrong, from accidental discharges to having your weapon wrested from you to shooting and undercover police officer in error, thinking that he is the "bad guy" in a street shooting. I'm sure you can think of many more examples.

With so many ways for things to go horribly WRONG, you have to be extremely careful to minimize the chances of them happening.

To me, that means that the legally-carried pistol NEVER comes out unles I honestly believe that my life or the well-being of my family are in IMMINENT danger, and there is NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE. (I would make an exception to assist a police officer in trouble, or to stop a violent felony if there were no other way to do so). I have carried a pistol for over thirty years, and I have drawn it three times- and not had to fire , so far.

Now, this pastor was clearly very fearful, and he went, armed, into an unoccupied (except for the intruders) building- where no-one's life was in danger. That is, until HE got there. If I were on this jury, I would be asking just exactly WHY he couldn't have called the Troopers, and let them investigate. Remember, this could just as easily have ended with HIM dead- and perhaps his wife, as well.

OK, enough for now. But there are serious questions here. How would YOU like to be stuck in the snow at night, and go and knock on this guys door??? Hmmmm???

[dark_lord]

And for something about this that is not serious...

The three men ended up together in a small, dark arctic entry.

What the heck is an "arctic entry"?

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

An "arctic entry" is just a small, enclosed porch, where you can take off heavy parkas, boots, and etc before entering the house. It also acts as a sort of "airlock", so that when it's 40 below outside, you don't have to open the door directly to the weather. You only lose whatever warm air was in the "arctic entry" when you go in or out.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

I think the jury will conclude that he a right to investigate suspicious noises, and a right to do so armed. I will be surprised if a Palmer jury votes to put this guy in prison- but stranger things have happened.

I still don't think he was very very responsible about this, but "all's well that ends well", I guess.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

"had a right..."

[marktwain]

The moral of the story as I see it is "Always have a throwdown.". YMMV.

There is no question that the perpertrators were armed with a knife and a gun. The question is that the pastor apparently did not know there were armed, so it may be possible that the jury will not know it, because they are to judge whether he acted reasonably, knowing what he knew.