The Witless Battle Over General Boykin

The Objectivist Center | 10/24/2003 | David Kelley

[jennyp]

And here I thought that the Atheist Objectivists had read their Sun Tzu.

<sigh> One of these days I'm going to have to read Sun Tzu. :-)

Seriously, I just finished Ann Coulter's Treason (great book, better IMO than Slander) and I'm ready for something else.

Interesting take on Boykin's speech, thanks.

[jennyp]

You may count yourself as an atheist, but your atheism isn't the key part of your nature. Nazis and Marxists are atheists, but you have nothing in common with them. What is key is that you have looked at the same world they looked at, and rather than arrive at an analysis that is hateful to humans, that uses reason to bind men, you believed that reason required that men should love, be fruitful, and free.

I agree with you, reason requires it. And, according to me, God also agrees with you. We are on this earth to love, to be fruitful, and free. Reason requires it, and God intends it. You are in agreement with God, and his will, as we understand it, even if you don't believe in him.

Thank you, marron, you made my day! (Now if I could only make those darn creationists understand that we evo-freepers aren't deep-cover Communist agents out to pervert the minds of impressionable high-school students with our godless evilution... Argh!)

[jennyp]

Thanks!

[risk]

They won 432 years ago at Lepanto this October, and thus the Enlightenment could happen unmolested.

[Jerry_M]

Great analysis

The mission is accomplished. Let the Iraqi's rebuild their nation, let the Afghans rebuild their nation, and let every terrorist know that we will hunt them down and kill them if they attack us again. Time to bring our soldiers home, time for the Muslim world to show what it is made of (if they dare), by assisting the Afghans and Iraqis to rebuild what was destroyed in order to show the danger of Islamic fanatacism.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

And here I thought that the Atheist Objectivists had read their Sun Tzu. ~~ OP

One of these days I'm going to have to read Sun Tzu. :-) Seriously, I just finished Ann Coulter's Treason (great book, better IMO than Slander) and I'm ready for something else. Interesting take on Boykin's speech, thanks. ~~ JennyP

Well, maybe you should read "Sun Tzu."

'Cause here we are, Six Months after the fact,and your beloved "Objectivist Center" is still making Ayn-Randian excuses for Torture and Forced Sodomy:

Why are we sickened by photos of humiliated prisoners, many of whom might have killed Americans or supported Saddam Hussein or al Qaeda? Aren't they getting what they deserve?... We should applaud those who risk their lives to establish such governments in their own countries and to vanquish the self-destructive attitudes of their fellow citizens or co-religionists. But we must understand that the people of these countries ultimately must create for themselves modern, civil societies and governments in their own cultural and historical contexts. If we fail to appreciate the limits of the ability of we Americans — the outsiders — to transform dysfunctional countries, we will only slow rather than hasten the day of those countries' true liberation. ~~ The Objectivist Center

Frankly, I am sickened. RANDIANS apologizing for TORTURE. You know what? Screw the Politicians, Screw the Government, and SCREW the Randian Objectivists Anti-Statist World Crusade.

You Randians can apologize for TORTURE and SODOMY all you want, we Christians Libertarians don't give a damn about your World Anti-Statist Crusade. We just want Reservist Families brought home to their Children.

The CHRISTIAN LIBERTARIANS were Right all along, and you know it. We never signed on for any "Randian Global Crusade" -- Screw the Government... we just want to Breed, Catechize, and Homeschool our Children in peace.

So bring the Reservists home to their Families, to Breed, Catechize, and Homeschool our Children in peace -- and Evolutionism, Abortionism, and Secular Humanism will die on the vine as HomeSchoolers Out-Breed and Out-Educate the deficient Publik Skoolers.

It's simple Demographics and Natural Selection, JennyP. We Calvinist Fremen have a saying: "God created the Earth, to train the Faithful."
One cannot go against the Word of God.

Best, OP

[xzins]

Time to bring our soldiers home, time for the Muslim world to show what it is made of (if they dare), by assisting the Afghans and Iraqis to rebuild what was destroyed in order to show the danger of Islamic fanatacism.

We agree in method but not in extent. Both of you appear to think that Afghan & Iraq are the endpoints.

I see them as the bookends, and I'm disappointed that the war on terrorism has been sidetracked by this damned determination to replicate the Marshall Plan in Iraq. I'm more inclined to speak softly and carry a big stick.

After Baghdad we should have, SINCE our campaign won for us Afghan and Iraq, and SINCE we now had Syria and Iran neatly, geographical, strategically, and operationally bookended...WE SHOULD HAVE turned and kicked the living s_it out of Syria, and then turned and deposed that regime in Tehran.

Then we return to our bases in Kuwait and send a simple message: "Give me half an excuse and I'll come do it again." And successively, we would destroy any government that came into power with which we didn't have a clear understanding.

[nobdysfool]

I couldn't agree with you more on this! It seems that our government has taken what could have been a really successful gutting of terrorism, and turned it into yet another opportunity to drain our own wealth and well-being, and to reduce our ability to stand apart from a One-World government.

[xzins]

Great Ohio Minds think alike. :>)

It's mind-boggling that the buckeye state polls have it in the kerry column.

(GW still being our best bet.)

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

After Baghdad we should have, SINCE our campaign won for us Afghan and Iraq, and SINCE we now had Syria and Iran neatly, geographical, strategically, and operationally bookended...WE SHOULD HAVE turned and kicked the living s_it out of Syria, and then turned and deposed that regime in Tehran. Then we return to our bases in Kuwait and send a simple message: "Give me half an excuse and I'll come do it again."

I don't really agree with your Plan (I'm too Anti-War, I guess -- I supported the Afghan War, but I was opposed to Iraq II until I found out about Salman Pak), but at least it enjoys the virtues of a clearly defined Mission Strategy and Exit Strategy. I will grant that.

Which, unfortunately, are two virtues not shared by "this damned determination to replicate the Marshall Plan in Iraq", as you aptly put it.

And, realistically, we probably could have executed your "Give me half an excuse and I'll come do it again" War-Plan for about the same (multi-hundred-billion-dollar) cost as we're going to spend rebuilding Iraq.

Let Iraq rebuild itself, they should be happy enough to be rid of Saddam. Allegedly, they have a few Oil reserves -- so, sell some.

[xzins]

The rebuilding of Iraq was a military and political weakness.

Can you imagine if FDR had told Eisenhower to pause and rebuild France before going on to Germany?

Pause and rebuild Morocco or Algeria before going on to Egypt.

Why not just cancel Bogart smacking Bacall at Casa Blanca. They could have made nice with each other, instead.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

The rebuilding of Iraq was a military and political weakness. Can you imagine if FDR had told Eisenhower to pause and rebuild France before going on to Germany?

To me, it's a simple matter of Biblical Justice. Under Exodus 22:2, it seems to me that the Government's job is to Punish the Thief who's breaking in (or in this case, providing training to 5-man terrorist teams at Salman Pak on the art of hijacking airliners with boxcutters)... not use US tax dollars to put the Thief's kids through college because we're sorry about them now being Orphans.

There can (and should) be private charity for that, but I don't see it as the Government's job. Especially when I, as a private citizen, am perfectly willing to help rebuild Iraq on a private basis -- by purchasing their oil.

[nobdysfool]

It's mind-boggling that the buckeye state polls have it in the kerry column. (GW still being our best bet.)

True, very true. It's the large cities that go for the Liberals, because they figure they'll get handouts in return. Out in the rural areas, Conservatives rule the day.