Cartoonist Tony Auth's latest outrage (Terri Shiavo)

The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Oct. 23, 2003 | Tony Auth

[huck von finn]

http://www.jud10.org/2ndDCA/jan01/2D00-1269.htm

The evidence is overwhelming that Theresa is in a permanent or persistent vegetative state. It is important to understand that a persistent vegetative state is not simply a coma. She is not asleep. She has cycles of apparent wakefulness and apparent sleep without any cognition or awareness. As she breathes, she often makes moaning sounds. Theresa has severe contractures of her hands, elbows, knees, and feet. Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid-1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs. She could remain in this state for many years.

[MHGinTN]

So you're saying that when she spoke to her caregiver (who swore to this under oath), that was bubbling up out of her brain stem, with no higher brain connection. Uh huh, I see. [HINT: you have bought into a bill of goods from three of five physicians, two of who are connected to the active euthanasia movement in America and two of who have connections to Gerogre Felos, but you've ignored the other two physicians who examined the same evidence and didn't agree witrh the proclamations of the Greer chosen euthanasia physicians. But you're certainly entitled to your preferences.]

[huck von finn]

I'm aware that she may have had something like three years of therapy, from what I can piece together. But there's so much information, rumor, and speculation going on that I wouldn't swear to it. There were some nurse's aides that made statements and now can't say anything...that was one rumor. If they can't talk now, how can this be verified?

I try to keep in mind that the family of Terri Schiavo is bitterly divided and that any information is going to be perverted by all of those people who get ahold of it--the media, concerned citizens, etc. That's why I try and go for court case information, scientific sources, and the like. I won't debate rumor, MHG, and it's hard to separate rumor from fact right now.

[trussell]

She was able to swallow until her husband made the facility put in a feeding tube because it was too much trouble having to feed her.

I think he did this because he knew that was the only way he could eventually kill her. She wasn't going to die on her own, so if she was on the feeding tube instead of swallowing food, he could make them take away the tube.

Wake up. Know what your talking about without a doubt, and then post!! You are grossly uninformed.

[huck von finn]

We're not playing here, playing for debating points. This is a life or death issue. You obviously favor her death. That's your right in this nation, but don't expect people to exchange with you when you obviously are only playing debate-point games.

It's not so much that I favor her death as that I, like others here, believe that to a large extent she's already gone. I think that Terri Schiavo has already met her Maker and is just waiting to finish her physical death. I'm not trying to play debating games. I could be wrong; Terri could still in fact be abiding in her earthly house, but the solid evidence from court cases and medicine strongly suggests otherwise. Without an overt miracle, I don't think we can expect her back. And I don't know if it's our business to judge this as bad or good.

[huck von finn]

Well, in the afterlife, the first thing that will overwhelm you is a sudden and dread recognition that you should have valued your life very highly, no matter what it was. But litte you'll be to do about it then.

How do you know?

[Normal4me]

Fortunately, we don't murder people in this country because someone else believes their life isn't worth living.

Well, except for deathrow inmates and unwanted babies

[bvw]

A little doubt about whether I do or don't, eh? Otherwise why ask...

Value every second, friend, and do not go without fighting for your own next.

[Shethink13]

It's not so much that I favor her death as that I, like others here, believe that to a large extent she's already gone. I think that Terri Schiavo has already met her Maker and is just waiting to finish her physical death. I'm not trying to play debating games. I could be wrong; Terri could still in fact be abiding in her earthly house, but the solid evidence from court cases and medicine strongly suggests otherwise. Without an overt miracle, I don't think we can expect her back. And I don't know if it's our business to judge this as bad or good.

Ok, so if you admit that you could be wrong, why not err on the side of life?

If the parents are willing to take over her care so as not to be a burden to Mr. Schiavo, why doesn't he just let it go at that? What is the reason that he is so desperate to retain guardianship and have her starved to death?

Are you going to try and tell me that you think he really loves Terri and wants only the best for her? And the best for her would be to deny her any attempts at rehabilitation, deny her reception of Communion as part of her last rites, deny her the unencumbered company of a family that loves her?

And why are you so insistant upon her death? What skin is it off your nose if her family wants to keep her alive as long as possible? They're not asking you to come and take care of her, are they?

[walford]

There is something that you have in common with the others who take this point of view. You eschew researching the subject before venturing an opinion. There are about a half-dozen of you who are preaching for her extermination. You should see for yourself. Your on several completely different subjects then you just jump into this one and pronounce her a veggie who should be offed. This is the classic pattern of a TROLL. But OK, say hypothetically that you're not. Consider the following -

There is one possibility that you have not addressed:

TERRI SCHIAVO WANTS TO LIVE
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35077

Another possibility that you and others refuse to consider is:
WHAT IF THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON IN THERE?
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/28/magazine/28VEGETAT.html?ex=1066968000&en=b70d11f190ea81c6&ei=5070

A critical factor that you have ignored is how the husband's attitude changed and why. Consider this exchange from the malpractice trial:
_____________________________________________________________
http://www.terrisfight.org/Headlines/Fund.htm
November 1992 – In a highly emotional trial, Michael Schiavo implored the jury to award money for his wife’s future medical and neurological care. Actual excerpts from the malpractice trial transcript reveal Michael Schiavo’s sworn testimony as he responded to his attorney's question. (It is important to note that Terri’s alleged wishes stating, "she wouldn’t want to live this way," are never mentioned by her husband at the 1992 malpractice trial).

Q: Why did you want to learn to be a nurse?
Michael Schiavo: Because I enjoy it and I want to learn more how to take care of Terri. [By 'take care of' do you mean like the way a Wise Guy would?]

Q: You're a young man. Your life is ahead of you. When you look up the road, what do you see for yourself?
Michael Schiavo: See myself hopefully finishing school and taking care of my wife.

Q: Where do you want to take care of your wife?
Michael Schiavo: I want to bring her home. [He put her in a hospice]

Q: If you had the resources available to you, if you had the equipment and the people, would you do that?
Michael Schiavo: Yes, I would, in a heartbeat. [see what he does when he gets paid]

Q: How do you feel about being married to Terri now?
Michael Schiavo: I feel wonderful. She's my life and I wouldn't trade her for the world. [no, but he'd trade her for some money and a fresh piece of *ss] I believe in my wedding vows. [BWAHAAHAAAHAAAAA!]

Q: You believe in your wedding vows, what do you mean by that?
Michael Schiavo: I believe in the vows I took with my wife, through sickness, in health, for richer or poor. I married my wife because I love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I'm going to do that. [ROFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!]

________________________________________________________________

She was beginning to eat on her own and showing promise of some sort of recovery. Now he certainly believed that her live was worth living while he saw the prospect of a 7-figure jury award. As soon as he got the bux, his attitude changed considerably. He put her on the DNR list and abruptly terminated the therapy. I DEFY EITHER OF YOU TROLLS TO DEFEND/EXPLAIN HIS BEHAVIOR!

We will never know what kind of shape she would be in if that were to happen. You can be sure that Michael Schiavo is determined not to let that happened. As of this writing, he has taken Terri out of the hospital to an unknown location. He still won't let anyone near her who doesn't want her dead. Hey, maybe you can show her your posts. That might earn you a right for a visit! Her parents can't see her - They want her to live.

Apparently because you wouldn't want to live like that you would deprive others of that choice.

No I can't prove how much of her is there. Do we err on the side of death?

Would you kill Stephen Hawking? He cannot talk without a machine. I don't know if he can feed himself either. If it were not for the technology that is available, he would be percieved as a veggie and people like you would be compassionately arguing for his demise.

You both are making definitive statements about her condition and her worthlessness that are based on no more proof than offered for the opposing point of view.

[walford]

Some corrections to above: [...what kind of shape she would be in if the therapy would have continued all these years . You can be sure that Michael Schiavo is determined not to let that happened.] [...Hey, maybe you can show hubby your posts.]---sorry for poor proofing.

[MHGinTN]

A sworn affidavit is not a rumor. There are several sworn affidavits that state Terri has been abused, that Terri has spoken, that ... well, never mind. You want to call sworn affidavits rumors, I don't have time to play with you.

[Gunslingr3]

I DEFY EITHER OF YOU TROLLS TO DEFEND/EXPLAIN HIS BEHAVIOR!

Simmer down. If you'll read my posts you'll find no defense of him. The particulars of this case do not interest me.

If you can quit hollerin' "TROLL" for a second you might see an effort to talk about some of the subjects this incident brings up. Or you can scream at me that her scumbag husband is a scumbag. BTW, gee, thanks, I hadn't gathered...

I put a DNR in a safe deposit box when I was 18. For myself life is not so precious as to be spent living in Terri's shape. That decision on my part doesn't preclude a curiousity, and effort to understand how others reach their own conclusions about the eventuality of death, and how life should be spent.

The more you scream and holler at me about the particular tragedy experienced by Terri, or trolling, the more you miss my point.

[Malsua]

>> it is the same as straving to death an innocent child who is mentally retarded, or starving someone who has been injured in an accident because they are "no longer useful". Either way it is WRONG <<

Amen. While I personally wouldn't want to be in her state and held alive, I am with those that wish to keep her alive(Drive a silver stake in my heart). If someone wishes to care for her, let them! They obviously have love for her and don't wish to be cruel or harmful. I think this could be solved by having the courts dissolve her husband from any further control of her and giving full control to her parents.

-Mal

[Gunslingr3]

Is her current state "miserable" by your standards or by Terri's standards? Do you know?

How could I presume someone else's standard? Silly question. That's why I asked other people if they'd take her shoes, I know I wouldn't. Scant replies...

[Bob J]

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[Admin Moderator]

Knock it off

[supercat]

I have no desire to 'kill the retards', but I don't understand why people insist on keeping the vessel that housed Terri alive. Her parents are unwilling to accept the tragedy that has befallen her, and now the tragedy is compounded.

Have you seen Terri's videos, including a 5-minute one called terri-cable.mov? Bear in mind that Michael, as Terri's guardian, has been able to severely restrict anybody's ability to attempt any sort of rehabilitation.

Until October 16, Terri was not dying moreso than you or I. Her HINO (husband-in-name-only) has immoral, if not criminal, motives for wanting her dead and has made numerous attempts to kill her. That she has survived these suggests strongly that she has a strong will to live.

Michael and his lawyer Felos are pathological liars. Do not accept anything they say about Terri's condition, the state of her trust fund, or for that matter the value of 2+2.

[supercat]

Why is she fed in this manner?

Her husband has forbidden anyone from trying to teach her to accept spoon-feeding, even though affidavits indicate such efforts had shown signs of working.

Further, even many people who can be fed by mouth are tube-fed because for people with impaired motor skills tube-feeding is more convenient for everyone involved. A feeding tube isn't some bizarre Frankenstein contraption to which a person is tethered all day. It's just a port into which one inserts an oversized syringe 2-4 times daily to give someone food.

If a healthy baby is not given dialysis for for a week, it will still be a healthy baby. If a healthy baby is not given a ventilator for a week, it will still be a healthy baby. If a healthy baby is not given a heart/lung machine for a week, it will still be a healthy baby. But if a healthy baby is not given food or water for a week, it will die.

[Semper]

There is one possibility that you have not addressed: TERRI SCHIAVO WANTS TO LIVE

I have addressed that point and you did not respond. She has evidently not expressed that desire to the satisfaction of medical doctors and the court.

Would you kill Stephen Hawking? He cannot talk without a machine. I don't know if he can feed himself either. If it were not for the technology that is available, he would be percieved as a veggie and people like you would be compassionately arguing for his demise.

This is a good illustration of emotionalism and flawed reasoning. There has never been any doubt regarding Hawking's mental awareness and desire to live - no court decisions - no family disagreements - no conflicts of interest - no group of do-gooder outsiders trying to alter the legal guidelines established to deal with these matters.

But, if Hawking had been unable to communicate and therefore unable to express the talent he possessed and this condition was artificially prolonged for years upon end, he just may not have desired to endure that experience. Logic leads me to believe that such a circumstance would be unbelievable torture.

But we digress. The basic point here is that medical doctors have convinced the court that Terri Schiavo has been brain damaged to the extent that she is not truly experiencing life and that condition will not improve. The doctors may be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) and there are certainly conflicts of interest present (as is often the case) but we are a nation founded upon a constitution and its system of laws - if that system of laws is ignored every time it does not fit someone's desires or if that system is manipulated for desired outcomes in individual cases (as is now being done), that system will not endure.

To state things more briefly, there are two elements here. One is legal (which is now in the process of being decided); and the other is philosphical or religious. One belief is that human life is so sacred that even its appearance should be maintained at almost any cost. Another belief is that Life is much more than what is experienced in this human environment and therefore it may not be wise to worship flawed, temporary human life when the reality of existence is found beyond it (as in spirituality).

That does not mean everyone should kill themselves (or even those with whom they disagree). It means that to move beyond this experience we should try to live as best we can, learn as much as we can and give others the freedom to do the same. That involves NOT making moral decisions for others (they don't learn that way) and it involves using as much perception and reasoning as possible. Also, the Golden Rule is not a bad guideline. I'm sure you do not want me to make family decisions for you and I have the same desire. It seems wise that those not directly involved should stay out of the Schiavo family's tragic affairs. I wish the religious do-gooders would figure out that doing good is not requiring others to do what they understand to be good, it is doing in your own affairs that which others see as clearly good and worth emulating.

Just one small example of something for you to work on: Try to stop attacking, insulting and assuming evil about those who disagree with you. That will always detract from your argument and it is certainly not worth emulating.