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To: NutCrackerBoy; Luis Gonzalez; Gargantua; exmarine
Thanks for the ping NCB. Hard to be sure of the time line re Luis' assertion. It was after all, a long time ago. I've read as least one piece that has the Christian influence on the Saxon society as early as the 6th century(500's) A.D. The extent of that influence is of course arguable.

There are references to earlier(5th century) contact with at least the Church of Rome:



A.D. 429. This year Bishop Palladius was sent from Pope Celesrinus to the Scots, that he might establish their faith.

A.D. 430. This year Patricius was sent from Pope Celestinus to preach baptism to the Scots.

((A.D. 430. This year Patrick was sent by Pope Celestine to preach baptism to the Scots.))

The point being, there apparently wasn't the 200 year separation between written Anglo/Saxon law and their possible exposure to the Commandments.

Following is the final paragraph in a fairly long piece that Luis and others might find instructive relating to early Anglo-Saxon/English law. Commonly called, uh, Common Law? Note the dates and the numerous references to "God's Law". It's obvious the early English were not only acquainted with God, but like our own founders, called upon His guidance when preparing "secular" law.

From The Avalon Project:

Canute, the king, greets his archbishops and his suffragan bishops, and Thurcyl the earl, and all his earls and all his people, twelfhynde and twyhynde, clerk and lay, in England, friendly; and I do you to wit that I will be kind lord and unfailing to God's rights and to right secular law. I took to my remembrance the writing and the word that archbishop Lyfing brought me from Rome from the pope, that I should everywhere maintain the glory of God and put down wrong, and work full peace by the might that God would give me. Now I shrank not from my cost whilst hostility was in hand among you; now I with God's help took away at my cost that of which men told me that it threatened us with more harm than well pleased us; and then went I myself into Denmark, with the men that went with me, from whence most harm came to you; and that have I with God's help taken precautions for that never henceforth should enmity come to you from thence whilst ye men rightly hold, and my life lasteth. Now I thank God Almighty for his help and mercy, that I have so allayed the great harms that threatened us, that we need expect Tom thence no harm, but to full peace and to deliverance if need be. Now I will that we all reverently thank God Almighty for the mercy that he has done for our help. Now I beseech my archbishops and all my suffragan bishops that they all be attentive about God's right, every one in his district which is committed to him; and also my ealdormen I command that they help the bishops to God's right and to my royal authority and to the behoof of all the people. If any be so bold, clerk or lay, Dane or English, as to go against God's law and against my royal authority, or against secular law, and be unwilling to make amends, and to alter according to my bishops' teaching, then I pray Thurcyl my earl, and also command him, that he bend that unrighteous one to right if he can; if he cannot, then will I with the strength of us both that he destroy him in the land or drive him out of the land, be he better, be he worse; and also I command all my reeves, by my friendship and by all that they own, and by their own life, that they everywhere hold my people rightly and judge right judgments by the shire bishops' witness, and do such mercy therein as the shire bishop thinks right, as a man may attain to; and if any harbour a thief, or neglect the pursuit, be he answerable to me as the thief should, unless he can clear himself towards me with full purgation. And I will that all people, clerk and lay, hold fast Edgar's law, which all men have chosen and sworn to at Oxford, for that all the bishops say that it right deeply offends God, that a man break oaths or pledges; and likewise they further teach us that we should with all might and main, alike seek, love, and worship the eternal merciful God, and eschew all unrighteousness; that is, slaying of kinsmen, and murder, and perjury, and witchcraft and enchantment, and adultery, and incest; and also we charge in the name of God Almighty, and of all his saints, that no man be so bold as to marry a hallowed nun or mynchen; and if any have done so, be he outlaw towards God, and excommunicated from all Christendom, and answerable to the king in all he has, unless he quickly alter and deeply make amends to God; and further still, we admonish that men keep Sunday's festival with all their might, and observe it from Saturday's noon to Monday's dawning; and no man be so bold that he either go to market or seek any court on that holy day; and all men, poor and rich, seek their church, and ask forgiveness for their sins, and keep earnestly every ordained fast, and earnestly honour the saints that the mass priests shall bid us, that we may altogether through the mercy of the everlasting God and the intercession of his saints come to the joy of the kingdom of heaven, and dwell with Him who liveth and reigneth for ever without end. Amen.

FGS

235 posted on 10/25/2003 3:53:48 PM PDT by ForGod'sSake (ABCNNBCBS: An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.)
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To: ForGod'sSake
"For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority .... This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here, then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it." -- Source

As you can see, it's not my assertion that we are discussing here.

I consider the source to be quite reliable.

236 posted on 10/25/2003 5:58:23 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Those who think they know, really piss off those of us who truly do.)
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To: ForGod'sSake
I'll go ahead and post the paragraph that preceeded your post, just for the sake of clarification:

CHARTER OF CANUTE.

THE Charter affords a most important illustration of the policy of Canute with regard to his English subjects, and of the general spirit of his legislation after his rule was universally admitted. It probably belongs to the year 1020, in which the king returned from Denmark, as the earl Thurcyl, to whom it is addressed, was outlawed the following year. The laws of Edgar had been chosen by the Danes and English at Oxford in 1018. The document is published for the first time. (see also the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle : Eleventh Century; the years 1020-1022. Note added by the Avalon Project)

"Canute, the king, greets his archbishops and his suffragan bishops, and Thurcyl the earl, and all his earls and all his people, twelfhynde and twyhynde, clerk and lay, in England, friendly; and I do you to wit that I will be kind lord and unfailing to God's rights and to right secular law..."


237 posted on 10/25/2003 6:07:34 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Those who think they know, really piss off those of us who truly do.)
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