Oakland City Council approves ban on ``big-box'' grocery stores

SFGate ^ | 10-22-03 | AP

[yonif]

Oakland has become the latest California community to ban Wal-Mart "Supercenters" that sell discount groceries alongside other bargain goods.

The Oakland City Council voted 7 to 1 Tuesday night to approve a measure to limit the size of "big-box" grocery stores allowed in the city. The ordinance bars discount retail stores with full-service supermarkets that exceed 100,000 square feet, or about 2.5 acres.

[finnman69]

Well, no matter what you think about zoning restrictions, big box retailers are devastating to downtown main street buisnesses.

[Az Joe]

Next item on the ban list: Smelly gas stations!

[MediaMole]

Downtown, mainstreet businesses are already dead. The buildings are too small, there is no parking. Even "small" grocery stores are too big for main street.

Retailing has changed.

[G.Mason]

Constitutional problem?

Methinks I smell lawsuits.

[finnman69]

Im not arguing that competition is bad.

But the trade off by drving customers away from Main Street retailers to suburban box box shopping malls is desolation of the Main Street retailers, vacancies and urban decay. this has been a hard problem for towns all over the US. It take creative adaptive re-use to get those downtowns functional again after they get wiped out.

[i are a cowboy]

This smells like the unions have paid off the city council. I am no fan of WalMart because of the number of Mom and Pop businesses they have ruined in small town America.

[Gunslingr3]

It take creative adaptive re-use to get those downtowns functional again after they get wiped out.

What do you expect to engage in 'creative, adaptive re-use to get those downtowns functional again'? The market, responsive to the demands of the people, or the 'city planners'?

[Gunslingr3]

"It's the largest California city where an ordinance like this has passed," said Daniel Beagle, spokesman for the United Food and Commercial Workers Local 870, which represents grocery store employees in Alameda County. "It's sending a message to Wal-Mart that Oakland doesn't want that kind of predatory competition."

They should just outlaw low prices, but that would make it obvious that they're screwing consumers, wouldn't it....

[finnman69]

Actually it takes both. Intelligent urban planners, city planners, zoning boards, buisness leaders, prospective tenants, and unfortunately politicians.

[finnman69]

Its obvious a mom and pop store cant compete with the selection and variety and economy a big box retailer provides. And I welcome it. But you have to balance it with the efect they have on main street.

[elbucko]

It take creative adaptive re-use to get those downtowns functional again after they get wiped out.

I think you're correct. With mega-retail comes mini-competence. Downtown needs to offer the skilled services or unique products that the big box stores can't do at the minimum wage. WalMart is capitalism gone communist and will eventually collapse due to its own weight and service level incompetence. Those who are willing and can pick up this slack, will prosper. The "Downtowns" are perfect places for combined use ordinances. Business at the street level, residential upstairs and E-commerce.

[mcg1969]

There's no big box store in my town, either. And guess what? I go to a neighboring city to patronize one. My tax dollars go elsewhere. Smart move, Oakland.

[Gunslingr3]

Actually it takes both. Intelligent urban planners, city planners, zoning boards, buisness leaders, prospective tenants, and unfortunately politicians.

yeah, what would private enterprise every do without the commies to tell them...

[CWOJackson]

Walmart should simply open a normal Wal-Mart on one end of a large parking lot and a grocery store on the other end or just put them two blocks apart.

[John Jorsett]

Well, no matter what you think about zoning restrictions, big box retailers are devastating to downtown main street buisnesses.

Long before big box retailers existed, San Diego's downtown was a decaying heap of bars, bums, and shuttered buildings. It's now a vibrant center of activity, with a growing population of upscale people. Big box didn't kill downtown, the growth of the suburbs did. New zoning and development is what brought it back.

A big box retailer can be compared to automation in industry: it brings increased productivity and lower prices to customers. Sure it displaces people, but they can get other jobs in a growing economy, which increasing productivity gives us. Capitalism has been described as creative destruction. While that can be hard on speific individuals, it yields the greatest good for the greatest number.

[finnman69]

Where do you think the people who went to the suburbs go shopping? Not in the downtowns, they go to the big strip mall.

[Gunslingr3]

WalMart is capitalism gone communist and will eventually collapse due to its own weight and service level incompetence.

Care to qualify that? How has it 'gone communist', and how will it's weight collapse it when it's weight is what allows it to set such low prices? What kind of service does one expect or need at a Wal-mart? When I go in there to buy a replacement alarm clock, I wanted to spend less than $10. Did I need a salesman to figure that out, or someone to read the price tags to me? No, I just needed an alarm clock to be on the shelf for under $10. It was too...

[mcg1969]

The truth is, I'm really not against a local municipality controlling the types of business they welcome to their community. It's entirely their choice, and the advantages and disadvantages of the pro- and anti-growth positions are clear.

But we're talking about Oakland here. This is not an isolated small town, but a hub in a huge metropolitan area. At that size economies of scale are just too important to ignore.

The supermarket was controversial in its day too, but its benefits are now basically unquestioned.