Commentary: When a feeding tube borders on the barbaric

Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | May 28, 1997 | Dr. Ronald Cranford, MD

[Kozak]

Like it or not, he's right in that the number of demented nursing home patients is exploding. They are constantly shuttling from nursing home, to hospital to be treated for pneumonia, urinary tract infections, sepsis from stasis ulcers. This results in essentially torturing the demented as we stick them with Iv's and draw labs, suction them, intubate them etc etc. The costs are astronomical. A huge chunk of health care dollars are spent in the the last year of life. NO physician or nurse who deals with this would ever with it on a parent or other loved one.

I do not advocate euthanasia, but this all out treatment of what amounts to a terminal illness with more then comfort measures is insanity.

[Don W]

You're not comparing Terri with Helen Keller, are you?

BTW, I'm on the "keep Terri alive, abortion is murder" side.

[fly_so_free]

Intubate is the only thing on your list I would agee is probally uneccesary at the end of life. The rest, suctioning , Iv's, Lab draws, treating infections are ,to me ,all part of making the person "comfortable ".

I don't see your point that some one who is old, has dementia and is fragile should die by choking if they aren't suctioned, or let them suffer from an untreated UTI.

You might as well put them down like you would a dog, it would be more humane. But this is what the euthanasia crowd wants in the first place. They want you to be able to take Grandma down to the doctor- just like you take your dog or cat to the vet for "the shot"- when they are too old.

I'm not against some one denying medical treatment or life saving measures for themselves,including, not having a g-tube, if that is what the person wants- Provided they have said so in writting. That is their business, not mine.

Anyway please refer to post 45 on this thread (from another Freeper) and click on the link posted there and read about "the doctor" and what he advocates . It sums up what scares me about the whole euthanasia thing.

[Kozak]

I suggest you come volunteer for awhile in an ER. You will see how "comfortable" the poor old dementia patients are as we run them through the medical mill over and over.

[Siamese Princess]

One could argue there was a built in boundary. When spoon feeding was no longer possible then it was time to go. Terri seems to be on the very edge of that boundary. She could possibly live on very careful spoon feeding and I think Michael has been very callous in this regard. Why should he care if she possibly chokes now and then, if the alternative is to die altogether? Something ulterior is up and it isn't pretty.

Of course we also see people who go on artificial feeding for months on end then come back lucid. It's agonizing.

Thanks for the calm and reasoned reply. You are correct. A hundred years ago, you died if you were unable to breath or eat on your own. New medical technologies do create new moral dilemmas. The question still is: do people have a "right" to endless medical care, no matter how expensive, no matter how hopeless, who is going to pay for it and provide the care?

[LadyDoc]

"The willingness to extend denial of even spoon feeding was also apparent in the l988 testimony of Ronald Cranford, M.D., in the Cruzan case. Cranford, an associate physician in neurology at Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis, testified there really is no definition of "artificial" feeding. 80 He said that, if Ms. Cruzan were able to take food orally, he would still consider provision of food in this manner to be "medical treatment."

This l988 statement, that no definition of "artificial" feeding exists, differed from a position Cranford had held only four years earlier when he differentiated between "artificial means" (nasogastric tubes, gastrostomy tubes, hyperalimentation and intravenous lines) and the ability to take food by the "natural route." At that time he specifically stated that "it may be justifiable to consider withdrawal of fluids and nutrition given by an artificial route." 82 However, by the time he testified in l988, he included spoon feeding in the category of what might be considered "artificial feeding." "There is a legitimate difference of opinion concerning spoon feeding," he said. "It is not fair to say that artificial feeding would only characterize what we call gastrostomy and so forth."

He stated that spoon feeding is denied in cases of like Ms. Cruzan's (where profound brain damage has occurred) because to spoon feed her "would be totally inconsistent" with what was wanted (i.e. death for the patient).

http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/fctwww.htm

[xzins]

Read my post #32. That explains what I mean.

[nina0113]

Someone posted the "new Hippocratic oath" which ever so delicately suggests one duty a doctor may see would be to kill. Barf retch gag vomit.

My sister-in-law's medical school class voted to use one of those 'oaths' - so my brother, also a doctor, swore her in later using the real Hippocratic Oath.

[Nebullis]

In America, as long as someone else (the insurance company, government, or hospital) is picking up most, if not all, of the tab, and providing the care, there is no incentive to face "the appointed time to die."

Funny, how conservatives change into fans of the nanny-state when it comes to healthcare. Personal responsibility until there's a way to extract life-extending dollars from someone else. And if you can't get the care you want, you sue and get a little pocket-money to boot.

[I still care]

It was something I heard years ago from a doctor. I may not be accurate timewise; it might be 65 but I am not sure. I am also not sure it is done that way in all countries. It has to do with the guidelines for socialized medicine; I had the impression that there was a lack of dialysis positions and preference was given to younger and healthier patients.

Having worked in the health field here I can tell you a lot of places are given to very old people in bad health (advanced diabetics and amputees) so I guess I just assumed that fact to be true without checking because so often dialysis is used on people here that you know aren't going to be around long at all. And here it is big business.

So my thought is with socialized medicine that it would be "rationed", to some extent. But I will try and check around to find correlating backround facts for it. I am pretty sure it is accurate.

[nmh]

"Maybe we should pass a law to require that to be reinstated. "

It won't be. They are conditioned in medical school to put a low clinical value on life. As in Terri's case they see no reason to continue someone. They lack compassion for being. They view people as objects with a shelf life.

[Siamese Princess]

Funny, how conservatives change into fans of the nanny-state when it comes to healthcare. Personal responsibility until there's a way to extract life-extending dollars from someone else. And if you can't get the care you want, you sue and get a little pocket-money to boot.

Excellent point again, Nebullis. In the majority of countries, and even in the U.S. a century ago, a government or church-run hospital might provide free basic heath care, such a setting a broken limb or removing a cataract from an eye, but nothing beyond that. If you don't have the money for treatment, well, you suffer and perhaps die. Very simple.

[MHGinTN]

Cogent point, Doc. It reminds me of George Felos's comments that Terri cannot raise a spoon to her mouth therefore she is being kept alive artificially.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Can I repost this?

It is a commentary written by Dr. Cranford whose testimony that Terri Schiavo is OVS was accepted by the courts on behalf of Michael Schiavo.

He advocates starving Alzheimer's patients to death in this letter.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

It is a commentary written by Dr. Cranford whose testimony that Terri Schiavo is OVS was accepted by the courts on behalf of Michael Schiavo.

He advocates starving Alzheimer's patients to death in this letter.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Unreal.

I am going to try to call into Larry King live tonight - right now - and confront this Dr Cranford as a right-to-die activist who believes spoon feeding as articial means, as well as this article.

I have had personal experience with quack doctors in South Florida. They aren't that hard to find, and it looks like Michael got just the right one. I right to die activist doctor with a right to die activist lawyer who once was head of the board for the company that owned the hospice...and a husband who could care less if his wife lives or dies...

[RedBloodedAmerican]

HEY!

Janet Parschall just said on larry king live that Cranford is a euthanasia advocate.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

bttt

[Sidebar Moderator]

Can I repost this?

Yes