Jeb's email to summer re: Terri and Governor's Power on Executive Orders

summer | Oct 18, 2003 | Emails from FL Gov Bush and summer

[PleaseNoMore]

Hellllloooo...Thank you for making that factual statement. I have two, count them 1, 2, loved ones who have suffered severe brain damage. One from illness and one from an accident. BOTH of them completely defied the odds and their disagnosis. One is completely recovered and the other is not but, with his mother's help, he proved that Persistant Vegetative State is not always persistant.

[spunkets]

" Thanks for posting the court documents."

Thanks for reading them and bringing my err about the parent's doc Hammesfahr the neurologist out.

[summer]

There was also a recent news article about a man who became coherent after 19 (nineteen) years in a coma.

[summer]

Thanks for all your great posts on this thread. I still have not had a chance to read this entire thread, but I will.

[summer]

Also, as per my polst #28 I believe, here is the other thread with all of Gov Bush's emails to me about this: CLICK HERE Finally, I still hope and pray that Michael Shiavo decides to take a bigger win in this matter by being a parent who sides with other parents, despite all the years of acrimony with his in-laws. To understand that a parent's loss of a child is the most heartbreaking loss of all is something I hope he considers, and since her parents are alive, and want to care for her, I hope and pray he will still voluntarily give up his legal guardianship, because he doesn't know what Terri would want today.

I have talked to numerous people here in FL who are not ring wing "pro-lifers" about this matter, and they agree with me -- and feel just as distressed by the lack of attention being paid by Michael to the living parents of Terri. Michael would be making many people happy if he decided to be The Miracle.

[summer]

Also, as per my post #28 I believe, here is the other thread with all of Gov Bush's emails to me about this: CLICK HERE

Finally, I still hope and pray that Michael Shiavo decides to take a bigger win in this matter by being a parent who sides with other parents, despite all the years of acrimony with his in-laws. To understand that a parent's loss of a child is the most heartbreaking loss of all is something I hope he considers, and since her parents are alive, and want to care for her, I hope and pray he will still voluntarily give up his legal guardianship, because he doesn't know what Terri would want today.

I have talked to numerous people here in FL who are not ring wing "pro-lifers" about this matter, and they agree with me -- and feel just as distressed by the lack of attention being paid by Michael to the living parents of Terri. Michael would be making many people happy if he decided to be The Miracle.

[summer]

OK, now, typos AND link have been corrected here, on my 3rd try for this post:

Also, as per my post #28 I believe, here is the other thread with all of Gov Bush's emails to me about this: CLICK HERE

Finally, I still hope and pray that Michael Shiavo decides to take a bigger win in this matter by being a parent who sides with other parents, despite all the years of acrimony with his in-laws. To understand that a parent's loss of a child is the most heartbreaking loss of all is something I hope he considers, and since her parents are alive, and want to care for her, I hope and pray he will still voluntarily give up his legal guardianship, because he doesn't know what Terri would want today.

I have talked to numerous people here in FL who are not ring wing "pro-lifers" about this matter, and they agree with me -- and feel just as distressed by the lack of attention being paid by Michael to the living parents of Terri. Michael would be making many people happy if he decided to be The Miracle.

[summer]

Thanks for your posts on this thread. I still haven't read the entire thread, but I will.

[spunkets]

Sorry, I just notice your post until now. The Glascow coma Scale is really irrelevant in this case, because Terri is in a persistent vegitative state.

From the Merck Manual 16th Ed

"The vegitative state, sometimes called cerebral death, describes a circumstancewherein overwhelming damage or dysfunction of the cerebral hemispheres removes the capacity for self-aware mental activty; but sparing of the diencephalon and brainstem leads to preservation of autonomic and motor reflexes as well as return of natural deep sleep-wake cycles. The condition occurs transiently following several kinds of diffuse brain injuries. A persistent or chonic vegetative state is most frequent after severe head injury or global anoxia (eg, from cardiac arrest) and can last many years. Once the condition lasts longer than a few months, few patients improve and none fully recover."

From the opinion in the appeal

"Although the physicians are not in complete agreement concerning the extent of Mrs. Schiavo's brain damage, they all agree that the brain scans show extensive permanent damage to her brain. The only debate between the doctors is whether she has a small amount of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex or whether she has no living tissue in her cerebral cortex."

That is the conclution the court came to with all the eveidence. See the parent's med guy agreed with the other 3. It's a persistent vegitative state and their may some cortex left. The rest is reticular, but no physical cortex to put anything together. The activity measured and given in the Glascow scale reqires the presence of a cortex for correct interpretation. I think the parents med guys are a team, neurologist and radiologist. There suggested therapy will do nothing, they agree it will not result in a gain of cortical mass.

I find the Terri's rights were upheld and protected in this case. At first I though they were not, but after considering what info is available. I see a tragedy that happened and parents that don't know when to let go. Terri left her parents and married her husband. They were happily married and the relationship with the parents was cordial 'till the husband announced it was time to recognize reality. Read the pastor's testimony on thier site. They're trying to hold on to a relic and started this slander campaign against any and everyone that stands in opposition to their will. Jeb is a fine pro life governor and I see no problem with Greer. The husband isn't all that moral, but he's not a monster. I understand why he waited until after the suit. He knew it was time to let go.

[MHGinTN]

And how do you explain the now twelve physicians--including one Nobel nominee--have found to the contrary, that Terri is too responsive to be in a vegetative state, that she is aware of individuals in her presence? I offered the Glascow entries in response to the specious characterizations of Terri being in coma or a comatose state. Are words uttered by Terri in the recent past merely reflexes?

[MHGinTN]

One last point to you, spunkets. You appear willing to split hairs in rder to weave a 'quality of life' shawl to cover the old notion of sanctity of life, that outdated founding principle of our Republic. I've read a few cold remarks on Terri threads, but yours have got to be some of the coldest ... quoting the StarTrek doctor regarding Spok? I trust you've written an extensive living will.

[spunkets]

"'quality of life' shawl to cover the old notion of sanctity of life"

"the old notion of sanctity of life"

Notions are etherial, they change, or transform. The sanctity of life does not and never will.

Throughout conception to death, the quality of life is just that, it's what you and others make of it. There is no measure of "quality of life", that will or should cause death.

It's the application of man's mind and technology that have brought on these problems in ethics. In the old days folks just died. Now the time between conception to death is extended by the efforts of other knowledgable men with technology and techniques. In extending that time, some folks are suspended in the death process that formerly was rather short. It's important to the sanctity of life to recognize when that suspension is becoming, or has become a violation of the sanctity of life.

"an extensive living will."

No. I prefer not to use the services.

[spunkets]

"And how do you explain the now twelve physicians--including one Nobel nominee--have found to the contrary, that Terri is too responsive to be in a vegetative state, that she is aware of individuals in her presence?"

You're the only one that mentioned it, so I don't know anything about it. Since the med records are not available period and they haven't examined her, I must rely on the findings of the 5 docs as I indicated above and info on PVS after oxyngen dep.

" characterizations of Terri being in coma or a comatose state."

I never did that.

"Are words uttered by Terri in the recent past merely reflexes?

That's a tough question to answer, because I've never seen her, or her med records and to know that I'd have to actually be there. I suppose this info was given by the parents. Given the 5 docs findings I stongly suspect reflex.

[spunkets]

Thanks.

My initial reaction was that this case amounted to an intolerable act of violating Terri's rights. After looking at all the evidence, I have found that FL has an excellent prolife set of rules regarding such matters and that the system has sofar protected Terri's rights. The default is to continue life support, but as of this posting no one has yet posted a valid reason that Terri would have held to want to continue on this way.

The desires of 2nd and 3rd parties in this matter are irrelevant. Tragedy struck a happily married couple and the remaining spouse has dealt with the situation. There is no reason for me to be effected by the slander campaign of the in-laws and their allies in their attempt to assert their will in the matter. The valid marriage means they were one, and there is no reason to doubt that they are not acting as one now.

Finding faults in folks is easy. Ignoring irrelevant faults and emotional drives to see the truth of the matter is not. That's why the 'toon served 2 terms, Gore gained a popular vote and the in-law's smear campaign has so much steam.

[spunkets]

I've changed my mind again.(imaging that!) I just saw the video and audio clips. Terri is aware and conscious and can answer her own questions. It is as clear as day the docs were lying through their teeth. The docs perjured themselves at the trial and I suspect the judge was in on it. The parents certainly had inadequate council.

[supercat]

I've changed my mind again.(imaging that!) I just saw the video and audio clips. Terri is aware and conscious and can answer her own questions. It is as clear as day the docs were lying through their teeth. The docs perjured themselves at the trial and I suspect the judge was in on it. The parents certainly had inadequate council.

Hey spunkets, did someone hack your account? Or did you finally look at some videos for the first time and realize that some people named Michael and George may have been lying?

[spunkets]

"look at some videos"

We are sort of backward here. This is the first. There was some short video I saw last week somewhere else. It was inconclusive. These here formed an excellent pic of her awareness and level of consciousness. I think that Speech Therapist from NWU could help her sign her own papers.