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To: beavus
God or no, rights come from the observation that other human beings can be peacefully persuaded not to act against your interests.

This is not the case. Many human beings cannot be "peacefully persuaded" not to act against your best interests. Plenty of political despots cannot be persuaded of this.

So if other human beings cannot or do not "acknowledge" your best interests, does that mean you have no rights? After all, a despot could easily argue that it is not in the "best interests" of a segment of the population to own property.

I am afraid that your argument, like most secular attempts to grasp the concept of the eternal rights of man, fails because you rely solely on a finite concept - the acknowledgement by mankind of someone else's interests - as your premise of fundamental rights.

The Christian view of human rights does not rest on the prevailing attitudes of mankind. It rests on the word of God, which says that human beings have the right to life (among other things) in all times, everywhere, in all countries and in all cultures.

380 posted on 10/23/2003 2:40:45 PM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Zack Nguyen
rights come from the observation that other human beings can be peacefully persuaded not to act against your interests.

This is not the case. Many human beings cannot be "peacefully persuaded" not to act against your best interests. Plenty of political despots cannot be persuaded of this.

My friend, this will get very frustrating if you misread my posts. It in fact IS the case, as surely even you know, that, as I said, "other human beings can be peacefully persuaded not to act against your interests". To say otherwise is to say that EVERYBODY lacks either free will, or the ability to communicate, or both.

So if other human beings cannot or do not "acknowledge" your best interests, does that mean you have no rights?

It means that those people do not recognize your rights. It puts your relationship with them on the same level as your relationship with the weather, or an animal.

your argument...fails because you rely solely on a finite concept - the acknowledgement by mankind of someone else's interests - as your premise of fundamental rights

What does this mean? How is this a "finite concept"? What would an infinite concept be? I will say that "the acknowledgement by [people] of someone else's interests" is a fact that all us nonhermits observe almost every day. That fact DOES manifest itself as the rights we enjoy. It's so simple why do you feel the need to unnecessarily complicate it with religious terminology? Maybe god likes that we respect each other. That doesn't mean he has anything to do with it.

the word of God, which says that human beings have the right to life (among other things) in all times, everywhere, in all countries and in all cultures.

I'm just curious, what is your reference for this? I mean, we all die. Some of us kill ourselves or each other. If you believe the books of Moses, god himself has killed more than just a few humans.

381 posted on 10/23/2003 3:31:26 PM PDT by beavus
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