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To: Zack Nguyen
If there is no God, then where do rights come from?

Rights come from a society that recognizes the value of the freedom of the individual. If rights came from God, and his followers were to enforce those rights, then why have most Christian states never recognized the value of an individual's rights, much less that individual's life?

To get these rights we have, it took some enlightened people who, while retaining belief in a creator in general, rejected the idea of an overbearing god that passes judgement and of any state with a Christian power structure.

323 posted on 10/19/2003 7:42:01 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
then why have most Christian states never recognized the value of an individual's rights, much less that individual's life?

We have a completely different view of history. Western Europe and the United States were strongly influenced, indeed were shaped by, reformed Chritianity. Consequently they retain a huge amount political freedom.

Christianity recognizes an inherent right to life for every individual, Christian or no. Not to say that every Christian has been a perfect example, but clearly the right to live is fundamental to the Bible, so I am confused by your statement.

Rights come from a society that recognizes the value of the freedom of the individual.

Rights do NOT come from society! I cannot stress this enough. If they do then society can take them away. Where do they come from? So I am afraid this proves nothing. You'll have to tell me how a society "recognizes" human rights. That is what this whole discussion is about.

To get these rights we have, it took some enlightened people who, while retaining belief in a creator in general, rejected the idea of an overbearing god that passes judgement and of any state with a Christian power structure.

Again, I understand our history radically differently. Our founders were mostly (but not all) Christian, and borrowed heavily from the Christian ethic in fashioning a governmental system.

And God does pass judgment, whether we reject it or not. Rejecting it does not alter reality. It is not an optional thing, I'm afraid.

326 posted on 10/19/2003 8:01:44 PM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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