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To: Ahban
"He does command indivduals to be charitable, but you will not find a single instance where He authorizes the government to punish people for failure to give to chairity. "

It's clear that when he is referring to these kings, he is talking about their capacity as government, not as individuals.

When Israel demanded a King, and God warned them what they were in for, he told them the King would collect 10% in taxes.

It's true that we are commanded as individuals to be generous to the poor too. But government is also "a minister unto God" and should not turn a blind eye to problems in the society. In fact to do so, will cause God to change the government.

In other words, if we got the government out of the helping business. And then we failed as individuals to take care of the poor, I feel certain that God would take the responsibility of government away from us.

The fact remains that in the colonial states, the reason the states got involved in "poor law" cases was because certain localities were not living up to their responsibilities and dumping their poor and disabled on other towns. I'm pretty sure that the same problem existed at the state level, too. Which is one reason why the Fed is involved and uses matching fund schemes to insure the states provide the care.

76 posted on 10/19/2003 12:42:15 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: DannyTN
Concerning the Kings, it is clear that when He is speaking about rendering impartial justice for the poor that He is talking about their capacity as government. It is NOT clear that the one sentence fragment from Jeremiah concerning "delivering the children of the needy" is scriptural justification for impounding trillions of dollars of your fellow citizens income to fund social programs that have had perverse consequneces.

Really, you are going to need more than one questionable sentece fragment to justify the welfare state. Its not scriptural. Its not in the Book.

As for your alluison to 2nd Sammuel Chapter 8, that was a warning of all of the BAD things that a king would do, not what God WANTED a king to do.

IN your next paragraph, when you quote a sentence fragment that says government is a "minister of God", you are correct, but you fail to note what government's ministry is to be. It is not the same as the church- the government is God's minister to bring wrath on evildoers and honor those who do good. That is about a direct quote. The Church ministers God's mercy, the state His justice. They are both His ministers, but they have distinct, bibical roles, which the welfare state violates and makes a travesty.

I do agree with your last point. In fact I make the same point myself near the end of an article here..

http://www.cparkansas.org/jesusvswelfare.htm

That does not change what the goal should be. Governement welfare should be abolished, albiet slowly while the nation buids the heart and infrastructure to do the job without government.

I don't argue with your historical facts about poor laws. Right now I live 3 miles from the state line. People move from my state to the bordering state because it pays higher welfare benefits. The answer is not to make my state or city pay more, its to stop all payments period! If those people want money from the rest of use, they should find some way to be useful to us in exchange for it.
77 posted on 10/19/2003 2:30:16 PM PDT by Ahban
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