Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: cogitator

I have now shown that this statement is clearly wrong.

You have shown nothing actually, as the same article makes it very clear that anthropogenic additions to the atmosphere are less than 5% of total additions to the atmosphere.

Emmissions cited in the article:

2.1  Natural carbon fluxes
                                                                     GtC / year
    Terrestrial vegetation  -->  atmosphere         60  Respiration
    Soils & detritus  -->  atmosphere                 60  Respiration
    Surface ocean  -->  atmosphere                   90
===================================================
Total natural carbon emmissions to atmosphere        210 GtC

2.2 Anthropogenic carbon
     Carbon dioxide sources                             GtC / year
      Fossil fuel burning, cement production               5.5 (5.0-6.0)
      Changes in tropical land use                              1.6 (0.6-2.6)
==================================================
Total anthropogenic emissions                            7.1 (6.0-8.2)

The page demonstrates beyond scientific doubt that the cause of increasing atmospheric CO2 since about 1850 is predominantly anthropogenic, primarily from fossil fuel burning.

Hardly:

Do you now concede that this point is correct?

No I do not, As I stated before, the earth cannot magically distinguish between Carbon from anthropogenic sources and Carbon from natural sources thus all carbon sinks must be taken in aggregate with respect to all sources of Atmospheric CO2 rather than attempting, as the article does, to separate "Anthropogenic" CO2 emmissions from "Natural" emmissions when evaluating Carbon sinks. You cannot take a "net" value of the Natural CO2, and then look at the whole value of Anthropogenic CO2 in evaluation of respective contributions.
Your point is based in a fallacy and without scientific foundation.

In fact, your point is indeed a mere strawman argument to boot to draw away from the essential factor,

Regardless of source of atmospheric CO2, the impact of changing CO2 concentration on the earth's Climate is nil:

As pointout in previous replies, and I will continue to point out:

CO2-Temperature Correlations

[ see also: Indermuhle et al. (2000), Monnin et al. (2001), Yokoyama et al. (2000), Clark and Mix (2000) ]

[see: Petit et al. (1999), Staufer et al. (1998), Cheddadi et al., (1998), Raymo et al., 1998, Pagani et al. (1999), Pearson and Palmer (1999), Pearson and Palmer, (2000) ]


 

Global warming and global dioxide emission and concentration:
a Granger causality analysis

http://isi-eh.usc.es/trabajos/122_41_fullpaper.pdf


Here Comes the Sun

"Carbon dioxide, the main culprit in the alleged greenhouse-gas warming, is not a "driver" of climate change at all. Indeed, in earlier research Jan Veizer, of the University of Ottawa and one of the co-authors of the GSA Today article, established that rather than forcing climate change, CO2 levels actually lag behind climatic temperatures, suggesting that global warming may cause carbon dioxide rather than the other way around."

***

"Veizer and Shaviv's greatest contribution is their time scale. They have examined the relationship of cosmic rays, solar activity and CO2, and climate change going back through thousands of major and minor coolings and warmings. They found a strong -- very strong -- correlation between cosmic rays, solar activity and climate change, but almost none between carbon dioxide and global temperature increases."

 


 

Again we revisit the Geophysical record of CO2 and it's correlation to global temperture, this time we remove the catastrophic initiations of ice ages due to factors clearly not associated with CO2 concentration.

From the geological record, we can see a remainder trendline of CO2 concentration with respect to temperature by running a trend through the peak global tempertures.

As you have acknowleged the initiation of the deep iceages are clearly due to other factors such as plate tectonics, Gamma Ray Bursts, Meteoric events, etc.which initiate atmospheric cooling incident to the creation of high altitude cloud cover & icefields altering the mean albedo of the earth. Such effects lower overall irradiation of the earths surface and hence cools the surface. Under such conditions the major multi-million year iceages are induced. Remove their effects on the overall record, and what is left behind is a residual that can be perceived, to the first order, as a correlation of CO2 and temperature if we assume an essentially constant Solar radiation flux, which the IPCC modellers insist as being true.

I bring your attention to the two redline additions to our favorite chart:

:

 

The upper horizontal red line represents a peak temperature of 22.8oC as represented at the chart Cambrian CO2 peak of 7000ppm. The second and descending redline is a rough approximation of the average peak temperatures which should be somewhat representative of any residual correlation between CO2 & temperature, we note that the downtrending redline terminates at approximately 21.6oC and today's 320ppm CO2 concentration.

It should also be noted here that the relationship between CO2 radiant absorption capacity varies logrithmically with concentration of the gas under consideration in the atmosphere. For any fixed multiplier of change in concentration there is a linear incremental change in absorbed energy of the gas. Thus doubling, or halving, the concentration of CO2 will result in a linear increment in the absorbed radiation at the wavelengths CO2 is responsive to where incident radiative flux is constant.

7000ppm/320ppm = 21.9 (~ 4.45 doublings) with 22.8-21.6 = 1.2oC change in temperature.

Overall atmospheric correlation between CO2 & increment of energy absorbed of necessity includes any temperature/concentration linkages that may actually occur in the atmosphere.

for 1.2oC & 4.45 doublings, CO2 doubles for ~ 0.27oC increase in global temperature

A value which is much less than the lowest 1.5to2.5oC/doubling estimate built into the UN/IPCC global climate models, which suggests the relationship between CO2 and temperature built into the IPCC models is substantially overstated and in error.

The geophysical coefficient of doubling of CO2 concentration for each 0.27oC increase in temperature, by the way, agrees well with many other means of computing the CO2 correlation.

A Lukewarm Greenhouse
"
The average warming predicted by the six methods for a doubling of CO2, is only +0.2 degC."


35 posted on 10/20/2003 2:28:37 PM PDT by ancient_geezer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies ]


To: ancient_geezer
You need to learn to stay on point. Posting huge amounts of unrelated information over and over again does not further the discussion. I will not respond to ten points at once.

You have shown nothing actually, as the same article makes it very clear that anthropogenic additions to the atmosphere are less than 5% of total additions to the atmosphere.

And they account for the fact that atmospheric CO2 concentrations are increasing, AG. You're either accidentally or deliberately overlooking the point that fossil fuel CO2 emissions can be distinguished from natural sources -- didn't you read the part about 14C and 13C isotopes? You say that the Earth cannot magically distinguish between natural and anthropogenic CO2 -- but scientists can. That's why one of the major efforts to examine the Earth's carbon cycle has been to determine the size of the sources and the sinks.

Here's a simple analogy. You have a bathtub. You have the faucet on and the drain is open. The bathtub is completely full, but because the amount coming in from the faucet is the exactly the same as the amount going down the drain, the level of the water in the bathtub does not change. Do you see that??? Now, you take a thimble and once a minute you add a thimbleful of water to the bathtub.

What is going to happen to the level of the water in the bathtub, AG? It doesn't matter if the rate of water being added from the faucet, or the rate of water going down the drain, are 100x greater than the rate of water being added to the bathtub from the thimble.

Fossil fuel sources of CO2 to the atmosphere account for the increasing concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere, even though they are not nearly as large as natural sources and sinks. They are a new (since the mid-1800s) source of CO2. And all of the evidence that can be brought to bear on this issue indicates that.

This is not a strawman, nor does it detract from what you think is the main issue. You have to admit that this point is true, because it is directly related to the contention that CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing for some other reason. There is only one reason, and that reason is well-known. Do you admit it, or not? (I'll get to all the other points you raise in due time. But this is point 1.)

36 posted on 10/20/2003 3:27:29 PM PDT by cogitator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson