205 migrants die hard, lonely deaths (Barf Alert)

AZcentral ^ | Oct. 16, 2003 | Susan Carroll

[f7Oshawn]

It is a lonely place to die, out in the soft sandy washes. The desert floor, with its volcanic rock, can reach 160 degrees. Most people go down slowly.

Blood starts to seep into the lungs. Exposed skin burns and the sweat glands shut down. Little hemorrhages, tiny leaks, start in the heart.

[Lazamataz]

Again, when people like you use the wedge of illegal immigration to rail against legal immigration, your credibility diminishes.

When people like you use the wedge of legal immigration to lobby for illegal immigration, YOUR credibility vanishes.

[Lazamataz]

Once again, what is so unique about this crime that we have to go to such extraordinary and violent means to stop them?

Ask Russia. They will kill you if you try to cross the border illegally.

Ask China. They will kill you if you try to cross the border.

Ask Mexico, even! *THEY* will kill you if you try to cross the border illegally! (sheesh)

[FITZ]

For background, if it isn't obvious, the idea is to tie up the BP so that the drug smugglers can cross safely.

That's what a lot of it is about. For one --- it's easy enough to cross in other areas, there are well established routes into the USA used all the time by illegals who know the border. These people are often being used as dupes of the drug cartels/smugglers to be their mules or their decoys.

[RoughDobermann]

So, if we have the military on the border (as you advocate) and can catch illegals, would you still advocate shooting them on-sight?

Yes. But, as I've said, there wouldn't be any people to round up if we took the drastic measure of defending our borders with force. Even stupid people know it is better to be alive than dead.

Once again, what is so unique about this crime that we have to go to such extraordinary and violent means to stop them?

I thought that we'd covered this: they are invading our country. That's unique enough for me. Not for you? Fine, we disagree.

[FITZ]

For example --- a couple of my neighbors down the road are illegals. They decided to try California because there isn't much work around here and they heard the money is better there --- and were caught on their bicycles on I-10 almost at Deming. They got deported to Juarez and were right back the next day --- no worse for wear. It's not hard to cross right near town. I blame the smugglers and coyotes completely for luring the naiver types through the desert ---- but the smugglers are getting rich. Plus like you said ---- the smugglers of people are the same guys that are smuggling drugs.

[RoughDobermann]

Yes, but you haven't given the justification as to why your definition of invasion is grounds enough to have extra-judicial killings

Defending one's country against invaders by any means necessary doesn't really need justification, does it? It's simple common sense. And, if we were to militarize the border and our troops defended against invaders, would that stillbe "extra-judicial" killing?

[Syncro]

I don't advocate shooting them.

But as one poster has pointed out, Mexico does.

If you try to cross into Mexico's southern border, they will shoot you. Period.

[RoughDobermann]

If I thought these folks were violent and/or trying to forcefully take over the country, we would agree.

What if they are trying to take over the country be peaceful means (i.e., sheer volume)?

[Lazamataz]

We aren't Russia, China, nor Mexico. We certainly shouldn't aspire to have dictatorial and corrupt regimes now should we?

I think it's just rather telling that the United States Republican Heart cannot stop bleeding if people die FROM THE ELEMENTS coming illegally from Mexico to America -- but Mexican troops will SHOOT AT AND KILL people coming illegally from America to Mexico.

And furthermore, if you cannot see that protecting our borders is important, then Al Qaeda thanks you. Narcotraffickers thank you. Money launderers thank you. A whole panalope of criminals thank you. Deeply.

[HiJinx]

Which is justification enough to step up enforcement along the border to stop the trafficking in both humans and drugs. There's one heck of a lot of crime involved in the smuggling of both.

So, why are others on this thread arguing for a lenient attitude toward illegal immigrants crossing through the desert? There must be some other agenda at work.

[jpl]

Again, for the umpteenth time, why don't you go ask the President, the politicians, the corporate executives, the developers, the people who get yardwork done, the restaurants where these people work.

But no one hear will question the corporations who hire these people. When was the last time someone got nailed for hiring illegals. Heck, they aren't even illegal anymore; as soon as they get drivers licenses, its a defacto citizenship. Apart from Tancredo who's calling for a stop to this?

I must have missed something, because I don't recall Americans ever approving a corporate oligarchy form of government.

And there are plenty of elected officials who are calling for a stop to the flood, Tancredo is simply the highest-ranking and most outspoken one.

[Willie Green]

Maria Hernandez Perez was No. 93. She was almost 2. She had thick brown hair and eyes the color of chocolate.

Reminds me of the irresponsible parents who lock their toddlers in a car with the windows rolled up, baking in the hot summer sun. I feel sorry for the young kids, but the parents should be tried and convicted of child abuse and homocide.

[Lazamataz]

If you try to cross into Mexico's southern border, they will shoot you. Period.

Shit dawg, man. They'll shoot you if you cross their NORTHERN border illegally.

[HiJinx]

I share your feeling, but it may be misplaced in this instance. Many of the people crossing are not aware that they are crossing through high desert...they don't come from 10 miles below the border...they come from mountain highlands, tropical lowlands, or coastal areas.

Their guides leave them at the border with detailed instructions telling them how to get to Interstate 10. Problem is, the highway is 30 miles north of the border and the Coyotes tell them it is only 2 miles. Additionally, the crossers are already partially dehydrated when they reach the border because they've been dodging Mexican patrols on their side.

Many are doomed to die before they ever leave the border towns.

[swarthyguy]

When people like you use the wedge of legal immigration to lobby for illegal immigration, YOUR credibility vanishes

See, that's exactly what I mean. I have never advocated illegal immigration but there it is.

[Lazamataz]

I have never advocated illegal immigration but there it is.

If you are so terribly interested in protecting the lives of illegal invading border crossers, you aren't but a stones throw from it.

[swarthyguy]

Stop being silly. Stones throw...WTF?

If you are so terribly interested in protecting the lives of illegal invading border crossers,

Yes, I am. Happy now?

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

Yes, there are legal means of entering the U.S., but if you and your children are starving, would you steal a loaf of bread?

Thank god starvation is not a problem in Mexico, or we would have billions instead of millions of criminals invading the country.