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To: jimt
Other than emotional floundering, is there any written refutation of The Age of Reason? If it's just the typical "Godless Heathen!" type of name calling, I'm not interested, but if it's logical refutation I am. Is there something you'd recommend?

Yes, I can provide quotes for you tomorrow. My sources are not with me. He was blasted by Morris, Witherspoon, Jay, among others. Franklin warned him not to publish it. I have that quote too.

To cite Paine in one breath, and then to make this statement, is a real jaw dropper. Paine had no influence? Jefferson had no influence? Puh-leaze.

Paine was an exception. My statement stands. It did not take hold in America. I didn't say there wasn't a smattering of deism - IT DIDN'T TAKE HOLD. The founders were Christian, not deists. It did not influence any of our founding documents nor our form of government. Try improving your reading comprehension.

284 posted on 10/21/2003 1:22:48 PM PDT by exmarine
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To: exmarine
Franklin warned him not to publish it. I have that quote too.

You're right on this. I've read it. Franklin didn't challenge the truth of it - he thought publishing it was unwise as it would piss off a lot of people - as it did. Publishing tranformed Paine from hero to pariah almost immediately.

Paine makes a long and very specific point-by-point case in The Age of Reason. I was wondering if you'd heard of a point-by-point refutation. If not, don't sweat it, I can Google for one.

288 posted on 10/21/2003 2:21:09 PM PDT by jimt
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To: exmarine
The founders were Christian, not deists. It did not influence any of our founding documents nor our form of government. Try improving your reading comprehension.

Try taking off your blinders.

Three prominent folks were Deists - Paine, Jefferson and Franklin. There may have been others, but I'm not aware of them.

Whether or not "Deism influenced any of our founding documents" is certainly debatable. What would the Declaration have read like if Patrick Henry had written it? There would have been more references to Jesus and Our Lord and God than in the New Testament ! Jefferson's references in the Declaration to "nature's God" and "our Creator" are certainly not anti-Christian, but they're much more Deistic than strictly Christian. If you're familiar with Deistic theology, you'll remember they held that the Testament of God was in his works - i.e. nature - and that it was self-evident.

Instead of ad hominems about "reading comprehension" (and I'd bet a large some of money yours doesn't test better than mine) why not discuss the issue?

292 posted on 10/21/2003 2:40:12 PM PDT by jimt
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