The second American civil war: what it's about

townhall.com | 10/14/03 | Dennis Prager

[wardaddy]

I'm more pessimistic...as much for drastic demographic change as for culture degradation.

[wardaddy]

Hey...I agree pretty much with that.

[wardaddy]

Yes it is.

At least so far, our side is far better armed and possesses a better martial aptitude.

Of course against compliant government forces en masse...it would be ruff going.

[wardaddy]

De Nada.

[Republic]

This article knocks me out. I am printing it, and keeping it close. There is a war going on-for the hearts and souls of our nation. Glad to see it in print. About time. And it goes WAY beyond party-it goes to our foundations, and whether they are going to be crushed or upheld.

[Lancey Howard]

For a graphic illustration of America's division, look no further that the famous blue-red, county-by-county post-election map. The red areas, representing the right, are the massive expanses of American territory which are occupied primarily by hard-working, traditional American families who just want government out of their faces and out of their wallets.

The blue areas, representing the left, are the relatively tiny (but concentrated) areas surrounding and including the nation's parasite nests (cities) which are largely occupied by, well, parasites who want government to confiscate as much as possible from the people in the red areas so that they, the parasites, can get lots of free stuff in the form of "programs" and checks and special preferences.

The mind-boggling irony occurs when hard-working traditional Americans from traditional American families, whose interest clearly lies in voting red, vote Democrat. The stupidity is incomprehensible, but there you go.

[JoeSchem]

It's normal for there to be a great deal of political hatred and conflict; cooperation and consensus is ABNORMAL in US history.

Yes, but you're missing the title of the thread: The second American civil war. In other words, we've had high points of diagreement in the past, leading to open warfare. The American Revolution and the Civil War were the two pre-emminent examples in our history. Perhaps we are heading toward another high point. History shows that high levels of hatred and conflict do lead to violence and bloodshed. Nothing is new -- and that's why the current situation is of concern.

[Lancey Howard]

LOOK

[Eastbound]

In retrospect, if the truth be known, that is probably the way many in the north view it today as well. There were no winners except the government itself, notwithstanding the abolishment of slavery. Slavery was the issue used as fuel. If it wasn't the slavery issue, eventually some other issue would have arisen for the gummint to use to justify its grab for state and municipal power.

[Republic]

WOW! That link to that letter was posted in 1998-it is a little vague for me---but I catch the drift. Makes me want to go out and finally buy that gun. Not because I believe in indiscriminately shooting my philosophical enemies...but because I believe in PROTECTING my family should the need ever arise.

[Travis McGee]

What did Jim say? "We've got the guns, but, they've got the numbers?"

(Sheeple + LEOs and FLEAs)

[Travis McGee]

An open letter from a 'Green Beret'

The Resister: The Political Warfare Journal of the Special Forces Underground

Spring 1998 'Defector in Place--USSOCOM'

This letter is addressed to old family Reds, central bankers, military traitors (past and present), academia, media pundits, "civil rights" activists, and "Greens." Your worst fears are justified; Special Forces Underground is real. It's not just a subtitle on the Resister's masthead. Worse for you, is that it's not just in Special Forces. It exists in all branches of the military, in federal agencies, among civilians, and in several foreign countries.

I am an old Special Forces active duty soldier. I've worked with people in all branches of the military, alphabet soup federal agencies, police departments, and civilians. While most people I've worked with are passive supporters of resistance to your "global community," there are some who are willing to actively defend what they believe in. I will continue to perform my appointed military duties in a professional manner. I will publicly agree with your collectivist policies and parrot your slogans. I pay my taxes, don't belong to any "militia," and won't join any "extremist" group. For all outside appearances I am one of your "global community" peasants.

Having traveled extensively I have seen firsthand the results of failed collectivist governments who have looted their countries into squalor. Most politically attuned people I know have seen it also and know that the only way you can achieve your global community is by doing the same to America. Some think resistance is futile. Maybe it is. But we are willing to fight you, and make you pay DEARLY for your arrogance. We are moral, principled, and believe in the ORIGINAL Constitution and the philosophies that define it. You see, your mistake was that you thought we'd just mumble our oath and then contradict it when ordered to. but YOU,--you promoters of the "brotherhood of mankind"--are the enemies domestic we are sworn to defend the Constitution against. We didn't choose you as the enemy. By your collectivist ideologies and actions, you self selected.

We pray to the God you SCORN that the day never arrives when we are finally compelled to turn against you, what you expected us to do to enemies foreign. If that day does arise, lament. For I, and others like me, have been trained in the blackest of arts, and the darkest of crafts. Your minions are useless cattle. They cannot protect you. You cannot hide. WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE, but you'll NEVER know whether der guten soldat you hired is one of us---or not. So, to all you altruist-collectivist global citizens: "YOU WILL FIND NO JOY IN YOUR NEW WORLD ORDER."

[wardaddy]

LEOS...deducting a number of Red Zone locals that are on our side and FLEOs don't scare me as bad as US military assets in play against our side.

We have a scary military...at least to a layman like me.

[Hillarys nightmare]

"Folks who really believe that, really amaze me, because I think they are so divorced from reality. They don't seem to notice just how powerful American culture is across the US, and indeed the planet, is, as a unifying force."

American culture is powerful. It is dynamic, viberant and good. It is especially powerful among Americans, when ever there is an external threat to our nation.
A great example to bolster this assertion is all the flag waving that was exhibited after the towers and the pentagonn had been attacked after 9/11.
As always, the people in the country pulled togather, and forgot their petty differences, and unified around the idea that somebody was going to pay for the Blood of the inocent Americans( who where of differing nationalities yet still Americans)who had been so savagely murdered.
But as usual the "Blood Sucking Parasites" in America,(divisive politicians, or opportunist) began to make their typical "seperate and divide" assertions, and with a willing media, resume their roll as "rable rousers", in order to divide our people and distort any semblence of national unity.
The last Presidential election was proof positive of the general divide between the left and right of this county, and it was an almost even 50/50 split!
Jesus is quoted as saying, " how can two walk togather unless they are agreed?"
Lincon also quoted Jesus in a speech saying, " A house divided cannot stand."
The writer of this piece is correct on the point, and is only speaking from facts, not assumption, that I can personally relate to.
Speaking of being "divorced from reality" you might ought to take a deeper look at the society around you and reconsider your position. Because I honestly don't believe you have been paying too much attention to what is going on within our nation for the past 30 or so years, or else you have been living in a vacum.

[Torie]

Great post. You as usual say it far better than I ever do.

[ForGod'sSake]

Thanks for asking, and for the kind words!

Well I'll be, another author?!?! I had no idea! I had addressed my comments to Travis who I knew to be an author of what appears to be a real barnburner, ENEMIES Foreign and Domestic. I've read several excerpts and he really has a knack for spinning a yarn. Timely subject matter also.

Your tome on the other hand is a little out of my league. I know nothing of trading options, except to say it appears to be a crapshoot from my vantage point. But I do in fact wish you well, and hope that you and Travis sell a million copies each.

Regards,

FGS

[wardaddy]

Damn....I hope there are a lot more like him.

[Qwinn]

"I see it as a four way fragmentation:

Left socialists = democrats/greenies
Right socialists = Rino communitarians
Conservatives = states rights constitutionalists
U.S. Constitutionalists = libertarians"


Not bad - kinda similiar to my own breakdown, but I handle it a bit differently.

I divide the political spectrum into three overall categories: social, economic and military (isolationist, hawk/dove, that kind of thing).

The military one doesn't really help in terms of making definitions because it doesn't correspond logically in any coherent way to the rest (for example, Christopher Hitchens seems overall to be quite liberal but he's no dove, Patrick Buchanan is conservative but a strict isolationist) so I concentrate on the other two categories, yielding this breakdown which is somewhat similar to yours:

1. Social Liberal, Economic Liberal
2. Social Liberal, Economic Conservative
3. Social Conservative, Economic Liberal
4. Social Conservative, Economic Conservative

Social Liberal, Economic Liberal: The most despised of creatures, scurrying out at night only to grub for worms and insects... I mean, the typical Democrat.

Social Liberal, Economic Conservative: This is my perception of most libertarians (and in your phrase, RINO Republicans, who I think are basically just libertarians in denial)

Social Conservative, Economic Conservative: The "right-wingers" (I'm in this one) Largely perceived as monolithically deeply religious despite some examples to the contrary (hi!)

Social Conservative, Economic Liberal: This is actually the segment that I think comprises the biggest segment of Independent or Undecided voters in most elections. I think a lot of Catholics are in this group. IMHO, these are the swing voters that determine most elections.

Whatcha think?

Qwinn

[NutCrackerBoy]

Ah! A game of describe our divisions! Can I play?

tpaine:
Left socialists = democrats/greenies
Right socialists = Rino communitarians
Conservatives = states rights constitutionalists
U.S. Constitutionalists = libertarians"
Qwinn:
1. Social Liberal, Economic Liberal
2. Social Liberal, Economic Conservative
3. Social Conservative, Economic Liberal
4. Social Conservative, Economic Conservative
NutCrackerBoy:
1. elitist socialist intellectuals (liberals)
2. elitist non-socialist intellectuals (libertarians)
3. socialists (mushy middle)
4. intellectual dissidents (Constitutionalists)
5. miscellaneous conservatives

[ForGod'sSake]

Hmmm, I believe the old soldier is more right than wrong in his observations. One thing I've wondered about and discussed with others is just where the military will be when/if the shooting starts. My guess is that there are many patriots still left in the military, notwithstanding the self purges under Bent Willie, that want nothing to do with the NWO business. How many of 'em are left at the top?

Would they become engaged in some fashion? If push comes to shove, I can't see the military sitting this one out, but who would be able to control 'em? When it comes right down to it, the military could operate autonomously; they wouldn't necessarily need to pick a side.

Something needs to give, and soon. It's gotten to where I can barely tolerate a wild-eyed spitter from the left, especially when they're parrotting the evening news.

FGS