ATF agent tries to put Waco ghosts to rest

My SA ^

[Atlas Sneezed]

Famous days in History.

April 19, 1775. Armed farmers and villagers of Lexington and Concord stood up to the Red Coats and began the war of Independence.

April 19, 1943. A small band of Jews armed with a few dozen rifles decided they wern't in the mood for Hitlers final solution. They held off the SS for several weeks, before being killed.

April 19, 1993. Eighty men, women, and children were shot, gassed, and burned alive by jack booted thugs of the ATF armed with tanks and helicopters. They were members of an unapproved religion and were made into examples during clintons war on guns.

April 19, 1995. Timothy McVeigh and associates took down the federal building in OKC with a truck bomb. 168 federal workers were killed. None of the ATF agents were in the building at the time.

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September 11, 2003 Bush administration christens a day of terrorist infamy as "Patriots' Day"! (Formerly April 19)

[Darheel]

"Life has to go on. I have to put this behind me and I have to go forward."

...straight to Hell, where I will be waiting for him at the very gates.

[1st-P-In-The-Pod]

"We didn't do anything wrong," Aguilera said. "The media just made it look like we were the bad guys, when in fact we were doing what warranted the execution of that warrant."

Oh yea? Where is the door? The Davidians didn't take it, so who did? You know, the door that would prove what direction the bullets came from when you were doing "nothing wrong". How many lies did the ATF and FBI have to tell to get the warrant to begin with?

The cure for a bad conscience is fessing up. Do it, or rot with your lies. Forget? Not likely!

[dbehsman]

"It spontaneously blew down, and the BATF/FBI flag spontaneously flew into the air and replaced it."

If I remember correctly, the footage I saw showed the flagpole with the American flag on top and right below a smaller flag (I assume it was a Davidian flag of some sort). After the flags flew off or were cut off, one of the goons hoisted up an ATF flag. I remember thinking when I saw that scene, the federal goon should have raised a Jolly Roger. It would have been much more fitting.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

ATF agent tries to put Waco ghosts to rest

Not in this century at least.

[davisfh]

" It is unfortunate, albeit predictable, that shoring up government stability apparently took precedence over truth. "

I think that you've probably nailed it, Teesdale. I've asked myself the question, "Where is John Danforth politically?" At first glance, it appears that he was bought off by the political left. But, after some consideration, I conclude that he was never far from their camp in the beginning. I confess to not knowing much about this guy's career. If I recall, he is billed as a Republican. I think that the truth here is that Danforth is first a politician, second a Republican and, if there is anything left after that, he is a conservative. One must conclude that there is seldom anything left.

I regret that I didn't even address the "Ruby Ridge" thing. I'll be brief and just say I hope that little geek with the Japanese sounding name (can't think of his name at the moment) who murdered Vicki Weaver never ever sleeps again. If anyone on this planet ever should have been brought up on murder charges, convicted and snuffed, it should have been him. As a matter of fact, I find it incredible that he is still walking the planet.

[archy]

ATF agent tries to put Waco ghosts to rest

Not in this century at least.

Remember that in the last few months of the Clinton administration, the *Justice* Department tried and convicted of civil rights violations several of those who'd been found innocent of state murder charges or had charges for their activities in the early or mid 1960s dropped.

Maybe in 35 or 40 years from now, a Justice Department with a different American outlook will take similar action against the Waco murderers, both those who conspired to plan it, perjured to obtain warrants and military assistance, and murdered the witnesses to the initial attack.

And once convicted, hang them. If not, then America is no longer worth defending from its external enemies, the Constitution is effectively ended, and the authority given by that document for government itself to exist is no more valid than the protection it once offered its citizens.

United States Code, Title 18, US Criminal Code, Section 242;

- Deprivation of rights under color of law:

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;

and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

[Ben Bolt]

Mr. Aguilera & Mr. Horiuchi are going to burn in hell . I hope the both of you double check your doors at night for the rest of your pathetic lives .

[MAWG]

The " Geek " that you refer to is the notorious coward and F.B.I. sniper, Lon Horiuchi. He was also at Waco set up in a snipers nest and said to have fired a number of rounds into the Davidian compound.

[El Gato]

As a San Antonio resident, the thought of this slug stinking up the site of the Alamo, make me want to puke. The only saving grace is that the BATFE offices are several miles north of the Alamo, and the wind blows mostly from the south, so the stench doesn't get too offense except when a front blows through. See "The UnWarranted Warrant" by Kopel and Blackman. Aguilar was the author of that warrant, which listed all sorts of legal items supposedly, and probably actually, possessed by the Branch Davidians, but no evidence whatso ever of any illegal weapons, not that any such really exist under the Second Amendment. There certainly was never any "illegal ammunition" found, and the BATF would never let any outside experts examine the weapons which their "experts" testified had been illegally converted to full auto, to see if the conversions had been done at all, and if they had been done *before* or after the raid and fire. From the link above:

The BATF investigation of Koresh quickly led to Henry McMahon, doing business as Hewitt Handguns, Koresh's favorite gun dealer. The lead BATF agent on the Koresh case, Davy Aguilera, listed in his affidavit for the search and arrest warrants all of the relatively recent purchases by Koresh, including flare launchers, over one hundred rifles, an M-76 grenade launcher, various kits, cardboard tubes, blackpowder, and practice grenades. [43] All of those items may be lawfully owned without the government's permission. [44] Accordingly, the purchases, while listed in the affidavit, did not in themselves establish probable cause that Koresh or his followers had violated or were planning to violate any federal law

The warrant also listed the possession of "the Shotgun News and other related clandestine magazines." So much for the first amendment as well as the second.

[El Gato]

If he had so much as an atom of personal honor or a sense of shame, he would have written a letter of apology and blown out his brains. The same for the rest of the feral agents involved. But none of them have.

Well I wouldn't expect them to go that far, although other, but honorable, men have. They at least could have resigned and found work more suited to their morality, or lack thereof, such as dealing cards or running a wheel in Las Vegas.

[El Gato]

If he had so much as an atom of personal honor or a sense of shame, he would have written a letter of apology and blown out his brains. The same for the rest of the feral agents involved. But none of them have.

Well I wouldn't expect them to go that far, although other, but honorable, men have. They at least could have resigned and found work more suited to their morality, or lack thereof, such as dealing cards or running a wheel in Las Vegas.

[El Gato]

If he had so much as an atom of personal honor or a sense of shame, he would have written a letter of apology and blown out his brains. The same for the rest of the feral agents involved. But none of them have.

Well I wouldn't expect them to go that far, although other, but honorable, men have. They at least could have resigned and found work more suited to their morality, or lack thereof, such as dealing cards or running a wheel in Las Vegas.

[El Gato]

I hope that little geek with the Japanese sounding name (can't think of his name at the moment) who murdered Vicki Weaver never ever sleeps again.

Lon Horiuchi. He is a USMA graduate of Japanese ancestory, which why his name is "Japanese Sounding", just like my grandmother's maiden name was "German Sounding", since it *is* a German name.

According to at least some sources, our boy Lon was at Waco too, again playing the role of sniper, some distance from the main building.

[Robert Teesdale]

To All:

When we review the "tormented" sleep of this ATF agent, and consider his desire to "put it behind him" and "move on with his career", let us balance that with the evidence before us. What if the dead could speak?

Here's a two-year-old child who was at Waco. What do you think he'd say? What would his parents, were they living, say to Agent Aguilera? Would they encourage him to move on with his career?

Here's a six-year-old child that was also at Waco. Since she was shot before she was gassed, perhaps she would be more forgiving of Agent Aguilera's legacy.

Here's their mother. She choked to death. Since her children died first, she ended her life knowing that her family was being exterminated. Perhaps she would encourage Agent Aguilera to move on as well, since after all it was a "legitimate warrant" he was trying to execute.

Here are some children's feet they dug from the rubble. All we can do is pray that they don't need them in Heaven. And that Aguilera hears them in Hell.

You ever buy your child a new pair of shoes? You ever see how happy and ecstatic they are, skipping everywhere like a small bundle of joy? Such a simple thing, but such a sincere parental pleasure.

At least this little boy can die knowing one of his shoes survived him. Too bad the rest of him charred.

Enough of this. I think it should be explicitly, unequivocally clear to both Agent Aguilera and to his fellow butchers at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who are no doubt reading this thread to see how their PR balloon flies:

It doesn't.

And as another Freeper said - there dead of Waco will be waiting at the gates of Hell for you. And I hope I hear your screams in my dreams.

Best regards to all,

Robert Teesdale
Chairman
American Party of Colorado
chairman@theamericanparty.us

[Robert Teesdale]

To All:

"It was a legitimate warrant. Who knows what these people had in store for the community?"

Rot in Hell, Mr. Aguilera.


Best regards to all,

Robert Teesdale
Chairman
American Party of Colorado
chairman@theamericanparty.us

[Ben Bolt]

Teesdale Bump !

[JesseHousman]

These are scenes I relive every day...

One of the prerequisites for a career with ATF is to believe the lies you utter.

This is one, of many, central government agencies that need to be excised. If these "agents" were turned loose on the open job market they would, no doubt, turn to a life of crime and violence for money.

[Ditter]

What a jerk! This guy & everyone involvded with this raid needs to be in jail! Didn't they know Koresh went to town almost everyday or jogged on the road alone? He could have been picked up easily & questioned.

I hope this guy has nightmares for the rest of his life that drive him insane.

[asformeandformyhouse]

April 19, 1993. Eighty men, women, and children were shot, gassed, and burned alive by jack booted thugs of the ATF armed with tanks and helicopters.

A day that forever changed the way millions of Americans feel about their country.

"Our government is the potent, omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by it's example." - Justice Brandies

Is your church BATF approved?