Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Ron Paul - Are Vouchers the Solution for Our Failing Public Schools?
House Web Site ^ | 9-30-2003 | Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)

Posted on 10/13/2003 7:39:22 AM PDT by jmc813

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-33 last
To: jrhepfer
How do we change that? Remove the public school's ability to have a monopoly on the tax dollars.

How do we do that? I don't know yet. Hopefully we'll figure it out!

I know there are some school districts that are coping with budget cuts by imposing "user fees" such as requiring parents to pay for books and other ancillaries. This is a trend we should encourage. For one thing, people who pay directly for something are going to take more of an interest in it. It's human nature. And secondly, it'll encourage more people to switch to private schools or homeschooling, without the need for vouchers. After all, they'll figure, if we're already having to pay, we might as well pay for something good.

21 posted on 10/13/2003 9:46:55 AM PDT by inquest ("Where else do gun owners have to go?" - Lee Atwater)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: jmc813
The problem with Ron Paul is this: When the facts conflict with his core ideology, the facts get left on the table.

Vouchers are no more than scholarships that are available to all who meet the criteria of need, and not based on grades. We have had federally-funded scholarships for all universities, including private and parochial ones, since the G.I. Bill revised in 1945 sent millions of veterans to hundreds of institutions including Notre Dame.

There is no doubt that the Left-Dems and their "edukashun" union allies WANT to use vouchers to extend their disastrous policies from the public system into the private and parochial schools. But as long as the voucher plans are written just like the G.I. Bill (the students/parents make a free choice of institution, and then the funds are paid into the student's account), this will not happen.

That is the central point that Ron Paul misses, because of his ideological blinders.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "Slime and Bigotry on the Campaign Trail," discussion thread on FR. IF YOU WANT A FREEPER IN CONGRESS, CLICK HERE.

22 posted on 10/13/2003 9:56:49 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (www.ArmorforCongress.com Visit. Join. Help. Please.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmc813
I don't agree with him on everything, but I agree with him on most things.
23 posted on 10/13/2003 9:59:07 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: inquest
Interesting point. You may be correct that it would incite some scrutiny were cash to change hands.

I wonder if we could not tie private and public school enrollment dates with income tax season. You would enroll your child, receive a bill, then include it with your taxes for a rebate to pay for the tuition. You would have to pay tuition for "public" school the same as you would private schools. This way, it becomes more of a free market.

This may cause private schools to increase their tuition to match that of public schools though, then there would be no cost savings.

Perhaps there should just be a per-child tax rebate for education. For example, here in PA, I'd get a rebate check one school aged-child in the amount of $8,673. Then, I could send my child to a $3,000 per year private school, and pocket the rest. This is, of course, very unfair since I would be profiting from my child's existence whereas other taxpayers without school aged children would not (not that this inequality doesn't happen already). I doubt the inequality would last too long though since the "public" school would need to bring it's costs and quality in line with the private schools and would quickly lower the tax burden on the public in general.

I'm no economist though, no doubt I'm missing many, many things here. But, if we don't talk about ideas, find faults, discuss and debate, we will never find the best solution.

Regards,

Jim
24 posted on 10/13/2003 10:03:32 AM PDT by jrhepfer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: GovernmentShrinker
The schools that do take the money -- which has been confiscated from all taxpayers -- then have a competitive advantage over the one's that don't.

Not if, as feared here, the government loads them with regulation. If they have to pay union scale, have certain class sizes, teach a certain curriculum, and so forth, then their "competetive advantage" will be nil if not negative. And if they aren't saddled with a bunch of rules, then the private schools are free to accept the money, so no big deal.

25 posted on 10/13/2003 11:11:12 AM PDT by John Jorsett
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: jmc813
This doesn't encourage real reform of the federal tax code, at least as big a problem as education. Most studies show that a system that imposes a parent/teacher relationship would be best for the vast majority of students. If a parent paid, from whatever source, a local education board licensed teacher $500/month to teach one of their children, it would be hard to avoid a parent/teacher relationship. Teacher's would make good money with low class sizes because all the administrator's would no longer be needed. A license fee would be used to hire a board certified teacher testing company and board certified inspectors.
26 posted on 10/13/2003 11:37:30 AM PDT by yoswif
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: Congressman Billybob
Source: http://www.bridges4kids.org/articles/7-02/CPR7-17-02.html
Article of Interest - Court Cases
                   Vouchers: Proceed with Caution 
                   The Supreme Court’s Cleveland ruling, a stunning victory for public education reform, could loose a boa
                   constrictor on private schools. 
                   M. David Stirling, California Political Review, July 17, 2002

                   M. David Stirling, vice president of Pacific Legal Foundation www.pacificlegal.org, writes a regular column, “Those
                   in Power Over Us,” in California Political Review. 

                   The recent Supreme Court decision holding constitutional Cleveland’s use of taxpayer- funded vouchers at private
                   and parochial schools is touted in glowing terms by most conservative commentators. “The most important
                   civil-rights case in almost 50 years,” declares one. “One of the most significant political decisions ever made by the
                   Court,” comments another, adding that the “decision will do more to rescue a deteriorating educational system than
                   any other act to come from Washington, D.C.,” in 25 years. And I agree with both assessments. Indeed, recognizing
                   the forces in conflict within the public education arena, I am heartened that vouchers, as a concept, were preserved
                   by the High Court as a viable alternative in the ongoing public education debate. 

                   Yet, while vouchers may be an effective vehicle for introducing “competition” into the moribund public education
                   monopoly, I am troubled by a rarely discussed, but undeniable, fact of modern government regulatory life: where
                   taxpayer-generated revenues fund education vouchers that are redeemable by students at private or parochial
                   schools, state legislatures are empowered to tie regulatory strings to the recipient schools’ acceptance of vouchers.
                   While vouchers may be good medicine for public education’s many ailments and the thousands of children locked
                   into poorly performing schools, I fear the mischief those responsible for the dismal state of public education today
                   will wreak on participating private and parochial schools. The independence of such schools — indeed, their
                   distinguishing characteristic — is imperiled by the public revenues used to fund vouchers. 

                   In the Cleveland voucher case, the Supreme Court found only that student use of public vouchers at private schools
                   is not unconstitutional. The Court did not address how state adoption of a public voucher system might affect
                   participating private or parochial schools. But it clearly spoke to that question back in 1984, in a case called Grove
                   City College v. Bell, Secretary of Education. 

                   Grove City College, a private, co-educational, liberal arts college, chose not to accept direct federal financial
                   assistance specifically to avoid the regulatory conditions that follow receipt of “public funds.” Also, it did not
                   directly accept federal student grant funds. But the College did enroll students who themselves directly received
                   federal student grants and used them to pay tuition. On that basis, the federal Department of Education sought to
                   force the College’s compliance with its regulations. When the College objected, the Department terminated it as an
                   approved institution for redemption of its student grants. 

                   In short order the Supreme Court rejected the College’s argument that it should not be forced to comply with the
                   Department of Education’s conditions because it was not the direct recipient of the Department’s grant funds,
                   stating: “Congress is free to attach reasonable and unambiguous conditions to federal financial assistance that
                   educational institutions are not obligated to accept. Grove City may terminate its participation in the ... program and
                   thus avoid the requirements of (the program). Students affected by the Department’s action may either take their
                   (federal grant funds) elsewhere or attend Grove City without federal financial assistance.” 

                   And therein lies the cause for my concern about vouchers. There is no appreciable difference between Grove City
                   College indirectly receiving federal student grant funds and private or parochial schools indirectly receiving state
                   voucher funds. Whether established by the legislature, or by voters through the initiative process, any voucher law
                   that allows students to use taxpayer-generated revenues to attend private or parochial schools will attach strings in
                   the form of conditions or requirements with which the school must comply. 

                   Some private schools, including Christian schools, may decline to participate in a voucher system for fear it would
                   jeopardize their independence. State regulations can affect curriculum and book selection, student discipline, teacher
                   training, licensing, salaries, and even tenure, among other concerns. At the same time, parochial schools that for
                   decades have offered quality educational opportunities to poor families, may conclude that more such students can
                   be served through acceptance of public vouchers. 

                   It would be sad if, some years from now, instead of vouchers adding the “competitive” element to improve K-12
                   public education, vouchers provided the vehicle by which private and parochial schools lost their unique quality of
                   independence, and thus became more like public schools. One thing seems certain: When public dollars are flowing,
                   those inclined to regulate — and government is increasingly filled with them, both elective and bureaucratic — will
                   treat private and parochial school recipients the way a boa constrictor treats its prey. 

28 posted on 10/13/2003 12:03:12 PM PDT by capecodder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: UnabashedConservative
It's a lot easier for citizens to control at the state or county level. In theory I agree that it should be entirely the responsibility of the parents. However, in practice, there are an awful lot of irresponsible parents out there who just won't do anything at all about educating the children they casually produce. The kids grow up quickly, and I don't like the thought of all those uneducated, illiterate, unemployable people roaming the streets with nothing to lose -- we have way too much of that already, and it accounts for a large portion of the violent crime problem.
29 posted on 10/13/2003 12:22:09 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: UnabashedConservative
I totally agree that secondary education should not be compulsory. The mess which the big city schools are in is, I believe, largely attributable to the huge array of federal mandates which they are subject to. Not that state level voucher programs would solve everything, but they'd be a step in the right direction, and might get the next generation sufficiently educated that getting all levels of government totally out of education would be a realistic option.
31 posted on 10/13/2003 12:34:43 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: Congressman Billybob
Except colleges and universities do face regulatory burdens from the federal government in exchange for federal money, do they not?
33 posted on 10/13/2003 1:09:02 PM PDT by inquest ("Where else do gun owners have to go?" - Lee Atwater)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-33 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson