[familyop]

"IMHO when economic collapase accelerates (and the welfare/funny money cannot continute forever), there will be a die off and those who do not want to participate in the die off will have to start working and taking responsibility for themselves and families.

Learn now, or learn the very, very hard way in a little while. Those are the two choices."

Very well said, as usual, LJ. To learn real, hands-on, varied technical skills and related safety habits takes time, as does simply getting accustomed to uncomfortable working conditions (about 2 years for a healthy individual, IMO--see cartilage and bones, joints, Asian practices).

We (as American people) don't even need to drill no holes in no stinking western buttons (see inner strap ties on wrapped clothing, outer belts, frog buttons, etc.). We could be going in the new style. ;-)

[little jeremiah]

One thing that people have been indoctrinated into is that we are now at the peak of all that is worthy regarding civilization. That ipods and ipads and new tech stuff and instant this and that zooming around faster and faster and faster somehow increases happiness and means humanity is making "progress". Now peoples' lives are so divorced from the simple facts of life, what what earthly life really depends on, that the shock is going to be massive.

I am thankful that I have never really lived like most people in many ways and am so used to what many people would call "hardship" that to me it's nothing more thnt very good fortune.

I went to another town meeting type of thing attended by my County Sheriff and he again mentioned what would people do if the fedgov collapsed. He's warning people, he knows what's ahead.

All people need to do, really, is know a smattering of history. Civilizations begin, develop, , rise, get bloated and corrupted, and fall.* It's not rocket science. And when God is kicked out - then watch out! The fall will be great.

But I don't see it as a tragedy, I see it as a cure.

*I also don't adhere to the belief that civilized humans only started being civilized a few thousand years ago, either, but that's another topic.