I agree.
When the Constitution was crafted, there were big issues at stake. What should be the status of slavery? How can small states be protected from political abuse by larger, wealthier states? It was compromises on these huge issues that made the Constitution possible. They spent less time than the good folks at Free Republic thinking about the precise meaning of terms like "natural born citizen" or "Letters of Marque and Reprisal."
Absolutely.
Moreover, if we are to trust Justice Scalia, the important question is not how the intellectual elite of that day defined these terms; instead, the important question is what those terms meant to ordinary citizens:
"The Second Amendment provides: 'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.' In interpreting this text, we are guided by the principle that '[t]he Constitution was written to be understood by the voters; its words and phrases were used in their normal and ordinary as distinguished from technical meaning.' United States v. Sprague, 282 U. S. 716, 731 (1931) ; see also Gibbons v. Ogden, 9 Wheat. 1, 188 (1824). Normal meaning may of course include an idiomatic meaning, but it excludes secret or technical meanings that would not have been known to ordinary citizens in the founding generation." District of Columbia v. Heller (2008)
Absolutely insightful. Back in those early days, how many ordinary citizens paid any attention to Vattel's theories? How many read "The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law" in English? How many read it in its original language? How many had ever heard of Vattel? How many thought it would be practical to try to determine with certainty the identity and citizenship of biological fathers more than 35 years after a birth?
None; none; zero; very few; and practically nobody.
The entire Vattel birther pathology is grounded in elitism. Ordinary citizens now and ordinary citizens at the time of our founding know/knew nothing about Vattel or 18th century Swiss "natural law" philosophies. But, these Vattel fans manifest nothing but contempt for ordinary citizens. They view them as ignorant (meaning they don't read translations of Vattel) and certainly not to be trusted to judge for themselves the qualifications of presidential candidates because there is no assurance that they will first read and fully understand translations of Vattel to discover the one and only true meaning of "natural born citizen."
So, to hell with ordinary citizens! What we'll look for instead is a few elitist lawyers/politicians at the time of our founding who may have had a copy of Vattel's work in their libraries. That's the best we can do.
And, yet, after four long years, they continue to wonder: Why won't the Supreme Court attempt to intervene to tell the world that Obama really isn't the president? He's NOT the president. It just can't be!!!
So well said, it bore repeating.
In fact, you might just want to duck N cover.
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Knock it off Jeff. Quit skulking in the shadows of Freepmail. If you believed in what your were saying, you would MAN UP and get it out in the open.
Your message this morning was a complaint about how frustrated I made you feel. It was in response to my post of apology to Ha Ha Thats Very Logical last night
I told you: > Some people deserve it.
and it has been nothing but a disgusting whine-fest ever since.
First two in a row-
Re: Re: Re: Cruz likely eligible to be President
From Jeff Winston | 03/22/2013 9:20:00 AM PDT read
> Some people deserve it.
Perhaps, but I’m not one of them.
Wow.
Thanks for simply confirming what an ugly individual you are.
Re: Re: Re: Cruz likely eligible to be President
From Jeff Winston | 03/22/2013 9:27:26 AM PDT replied
You know, I try to be polite to people.
I tried to engage you, in good faith.
You responded first by indicating pretty clearly that there was no evidence I could present which would ever change your mind, then by falsely accusing me of “repeating lies,” of being a “fraud,” and of being “paid.”
I wrote to you thinking it might be possible there was still a human being in there somewhere.
Sorry. My mistake.
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Now, against ALL logic and reason, I had been working on a post to you in order try to reengage the conversation IF it could be done under certain conditions, so I wrote back-
Re: Re: Re: Re: Cruz likely eligible to be President
To Jeff Winston | 03/22/2013 9:49:17 AM PDT sent
What a shame. I’ve spent the last half hour composing a post to you in an offer to reattempt an honest conversation, and what do I find? Not one, but 2 nasty messages!
What exactly did you expect, Jeff? You’ve questioned my intelligence, my integrity, my adherence to the Constitution, my motherhood, put words in my mouth MORE than once, made a cowardly and thinly veiled THREAT by insinuating you could somehow influence the owner of the website for my removal, ignored direct questions, called me a liar....tell me Jeff
What DID you expect?
_________________
And if you think I now care one WHIT about what you think of me……
THINK AGAIN!
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Your response
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cruz likely eligible to be President
From Jeff Winston | 03/22/2013 10:27:00 AM PDT read
> What a shame. I’ve spent the last half hour composing > a post to you in an offer to reattempt an honest > conversation, and what do I find?
I was the one who initiated a reattempt to open an honest and polite conversation with you.
I had hoped that I might find a human, but I received nothing back but venom.
A statement that I supposedly “deserved” your abuses.
Man. You don’t call that a “nasty” message? If you don’t think your response to me was nasty, I’m not sure what you think the term means.
I am willing to converse in an honest and polite way with decent human beings. If you decide at some point that you are similarly willing to converse in an honest and polite way, please let me know. I am open to such approaches.
I am not open to people first falsely and unjustly abusing me, then telling me that I “deserved” it.
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HERE’S MY REPLY WHICH I WILL NOT FREEPMAIL, BUT PUT HERE FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE-
No, the problem, Jeff, is that now that Ha Ha Thats Very Logical and I are engaged in a civil, adult conversation, you want to join back in!
Well.........
SUCK IT UP, BUTTERCUP!
You had your chance and completely, repeatedly and thoroughly abused it!! I also find your trying to assume the ill-fitting role of Mister Poor Little Innocent Me particularly disgusting!
and if you FReepmail me again, I WILL be pinging the mods back to this post!!
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GOODBYE!