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To: VRWCer
Pro-choice but not pro-abortion, that is the second time today that I have heard a liberal try to make a distinction, one that I admit completely escapes me. Does anyone understand what point they are trying to make and if so, would you be willing to enlighten me? I mean, I don’t see any gray area between taking the life of an unborn child, or protecting it. How can one be both pro-choice and against abortion? Or is this another attempt at equivocation, courtesy of the democratic party?

There is a libertarian perspective that abortion is (or may be) immoral but is not a government issue. There is also a strict constructionist perspective on the Constitution that says that regardless of its lack of morality or desirability, abortion is not a federal issue at all because of the Enumerated Powers, and the 9th and 10th Amendments. One can think that abortion is a terrible thing but that the government should not meddle with that "personal" decision. My abortion views on what should be legal are different from my views on what is moral, and my views on appropriate federal laws are different from my views on appropriate state laws. I don't describe myself as "pro-choice" because that term implies no restrictions. I also don't approve of a complete ban on abortions, particularly when the medical risk to the mother is high.

33 posted on 09/07/2012 7:07:50 AM PDT by Pollster1 (Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Pollster1
There is a libertarian perspective that abortion is (or may be) immoral but is not a government issue. There is also a strict constructionist perspective on the Constitution that says that regardless of its lack of morality or desirability, abortion is not a federal issue at all because of the Enumerated Powers, and the 9th and 10th Amendments.

The "Libertarian" perspective surely must admit that the role of government - the CENTRAL role of government - is to protect the unalienable rights of its citizens, yes? If there is a "right to life" that supersedes all other rights, and it most certainly has to considering no rights would be of any worth to one who is not alive, then governments must protect this right - of innocents most of all - above all others. This, I think, is the primary reason why I do not believe we can ever be in favor of a "choice" that denies the right to life of an innocent child who had NOTHING to do with how it was conceived.

In the case of danger to the mother's life - and this is an extremely rare occurrence - then it is not a matter of taking a life so much as saving a life. In the case of an ectopic pregnancy - where the embryo attaches to the fallopian tube wall instead of the uterine - then surgery MUST be done to remove the developing baby as allowing it to remain would cause the death of the baby AND the mother. In such a case, there is no way to save the life of the child - no technique exists to re-implant the embryo where it should be.

In all other cases - yes, even rape and incest - the life of the human being conceived must and should be protected by law. Will there STILL be abortions performed if it is made illegal? Sure, the "back alley" butchers who got to move into the open to practice their grisly trade will just move back into the alleys again. Violating the law was never their concern anyway - there was far too much money to be made.

The ideal, of course, is to make everyone aware of the facts about abortion. Get rid of the euphemisms and false claims of women's rights and help our society to get to the point where abortion will become unthinkable. It won't have to be made illegal then. Putting our collective heads in the sand and hiding behind slogans that, "I'm not pro-abortion, just pro-choice.", because it sounds enlightened, will only prolong the fight. Until the most innocent life of all is protected, NO ONE will be truly safe. The Libertarian perspective on this issue is a cowardly one.

39 posted on 09/07/2012 8:08:20 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Pollster1
There is a libertarian perspective that abortion is (or may be) immoral but is not a government issue. There is also a strict constructionist perspective on the Constitution that says that regardless of its lack of morality or desirability, abortion is not a federal issue at all because of the Enumerated Powers, and the 9th and 10th Amendments.

The "Libertarian" perspective surely must admit that the role of government - the CENTRAL role of government - is to protect the unalienable rights of its citizens, yes? If there is a "right to life" that supersedes all other rights, and it most certainly has to considering no rights would be of any worth to one who is not alive, then governments must protect this right - of innocents most of all - above all others. This, I think, is the primary reason why I do not believe we can ever be in favor of a "choice" that denies the right to life of an innocent child who had NOTHING to do with how it was conceived.

In the case of danger to the mother's life - and this is an extremely rare occurrence - then it is not a matter of taking a life so much as saving a life. In the case of an ectopic pregnancy - where the embryo attaches to the fallopian tube wall instead of the uterine - then surgery MUST be done to remove the developing baby as allowing it to remain would cause the death of the baby AND the mother. In such a case, there is no way to save the life of the child - no technique exists to re-implant the embryo where it should be.

In all other cases - yes, even rape and incest - the life of the human being conceived must and should be protected by law. Will there STILL be abortions performed if it is made illegal? Sure, the "back alley" butchers who got to move into the open to practice their grisly trade will just move back into the alleys again. Violating the law was never their concern anyway - there was far too much money to be made.

The ideal, of course, is to make everyone aware of the facts about abortion. Get rid of the euphemisms and false claims of women's rights and help our society to get to the point where abortion will become unthinkable. It won't have to be made illegal then. Putting our collective heads in the sand and hiding behind slogans that, "I'm not pro-abortion, just pro-choice.", because it sounds enlightened, will only prolong the fight. Until the most innocent life of all is protected, NO ONE will be truly safe. The Libertarian perspective on this issue is a cowardly one.

40 posted on 09/07/2012 8:12:53 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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