Posted on 10/14/2011 11:38:51 AM PDT by Brookhaven
What is a sales tax? It is a tax that is paid by a customer when they purchase a retail item. Today, because of the way our tax system is configured, 22% of the retail price of any item purchased is due to hidden taxes embedded into the price.
Hmmm, a 22% tax that is paid by the retail customer at the time of purchase. You know, that sounds a lot like a sales tax to me--a hidden sales tax.
With all of the hollering and screaming over Herman Cain's proposition to implement a sales tax, we fail to take into account we already have a hidden sales tax. All of the objections being thrown at Cain's 9% sales tax--every single one--also apply to the current hidden sales tax embedded in the retail price of every product.
"There's nothing to stop congress from raising the 999 sales tax rate. The 9% rate will soon be 12% or even 20%!" That's the first objection you hear. But ask yourself, what's to stop congress from rasing the current hidden sales tax?
Nothing. Not only is there nothing stopping them, they are in the process of doing it right now! Obama's calls to raise the business taxes so corporations "pay their fair share" will have only one result: increasing the hidden sales tax embedded in every retail product.
Higher taxes on business are passed onto consumers in the form of higher product prices. This is economics 101; only the ignorant argue otherwise. I'm starting to wonder though, if they still teach economics in college. The Occupy Wall Street college students seem oblivious to the fact that their calls to raise taxes on "evil corporations" will raise the price of every retail item purchased--milk, bread, clothing, protest signs, megaphones, lice killer--everything.
The current sales tax is a hidden tax; maybe they don't realize what will happen, because they can't see it happen. Or, maybe they don't care; they know they can get away with raising taxes, because hidden taxes are always easy to raise.
This is the advantage of Cain's proposal. It ends the hidden sales tax, and replaces it with a visible, in-your-face sales tax. Unlike the current hidden sales tax (which is easy, easy, easy to raise), Cain's tax would be difficult to increase. A rate increase would immediately be recognized by every single person in the country.
"Cain's sales tax could turn into a VAT" is the second objection you often hear. First, what is a VAT?
A VAT (value added tax) is a tax that is applied to a product at each stage of the production process.
Conservatives rightly hate the idea of a VAT, because it results in a hidden tax embedded in the retail price of every product.
Wait, huh, what? Hidden tax embedded in the retail price of every product! Didn't we just finish talking about the fact that there is a 22% hidden tax embedded in the price of every retail product now? Let's look at how the current system works.
The result is an average 22% hidden tax embedded in the retail price of every product.
That's right, the current hidden sales tax meets every definition of a VAT--added at each stage of production, and hidden from the consumer by embedding it in the retail product price. It's a VAT.
Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan eliminates the taxes that result in the current 22% hidden sales tax and replaces it them a 9% fully transparent, in-you-face sales tax. And unlike the current 22% hidden tax, it is not a VAT.
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Then where does it go from there? 10%-15%-20% This is my big problem with Cain. He needs to drop this.
“Then where does it go from there?”
The same place the current system goes. Up.
Point is, it’ll be much easier to keep tabs on them trying to raise a VISIBLE tax.
If it goes to 10% under Cain’s plan, it will go there with full transparency. Can you tell me who is responsible for all the taxes today?
I’m not sure about that... That’s part of cost of goods sold. No?
Excellent thread! Thanks so very much!
You missed the entire point of the article.
There is a now a 22% tax embeded in the retail price of everything.
It is a hidden tax.
Hidden taxes are easy to raise (much easier than Cain’s visible tax that you are worrying about).
This hidden tax operates like a VAT (the other thing people worry Cain’s tax might morph into).
Those critical of Cain’s proposal because (1) the rate might go up, and (2) it might morph into a VAT need to answer the following question:
Since the current hidden 22% sales tax is going up (not might, but is being raised as we speak), and (2) operates like a VAT now, why are you OK with with this tax, but not OK with Cain’s (which currently isn’t any of the things you worry it MIGHT become)?
22%? That was hidden so well in the article I couldn’t find it. Where does that come from? Does that include state taxes and fees?
The comparison between a VAT sales tax and the dairy industry income tax is just plain weird. They are in no way comparable.
9-9-9 would increase the cost of everything from 10 to 50% or more, just like in Europe.
I like Cain but the 9-9-9 idea is dangerous. How about everybody pays a flat tax? Say 13% No corporate income tax and no deductions.
It looks like a VAT to me. It just needs to quack.
It would also be a tax that everyone pays, not just the top 53% of earners.
I really don't think this will ever pass for the same reason I don't think Fair Tax, Flat Tax, or national sales taxes will work. Congress won't give up the power to tax. It's the number one form of control that it holds over individuals and states.
They collect a gasoline sales tax and then give a portion of it back to the states where it came from if the state agrees to do the things the Federal government wants - like national speed limits, enforce seat belt laws, and enact "right on red" laws.
It gives them the power to do things that are beyond what they are allowed to do by the Constitution.
Would be? The point of the article is we currently have a tax that acts exactly like a VAT, including the huge bureaucracy you worry about.
The 999 plan is NOT a VAT. In fact, it eliminates the taxes that make up the current de-facto VAT.
Okay, I read the article. What are the components of this 22% hidden tax?
Then where does it go from there? 10%-15%-20% This is my big problem with Cain. He needs to drop this
uh no you need to take another look, we need to drop the current system its terrible.
No new taxes of any kind!
“The Occupy Wall Street college students seem oblivious to the fact that their calls to raise taxes on “evil corporations” will raise the price of every retail item purchased...”
They figure they’ll get more food stamps to cover the difference.
Eliminate punitive taxes too. A straight 9 percent tax on gas and alcohol is only fair. While at it, stop mixing gas and alcohol. Stop taxing diesel, since it is the fuel of commerce.
There will be plenty of resistance to such a plan. I’m not worried about elected officials. They’ll cave to public pressure and go along with anything to save their phoney baloney jobs. It’s the tax attorneys, accountants, tax ‘professionals” and software manufacturers that will scream the loudest, and spare no expense to scare the hell out everyone with this “added tax” bs.
It looks like a VAT to me. It just needs to quack.
Would you define what you think a VAT is? Same for a sales tax.
It seems from reading your post, that either you or I are confused about the terms.
A VAT (value added tax) is a tax added at each stage of produciton as the product changes hands. It is added by the final retailer BEFORE the product reaches the cash register, and thus is included in the retail price marked on the product sitting on the shelf.
A sales tax is added after a product reaches the cash register for it's final retail sale. It is added one time, and one time only, in the production chain.
If you have a different understanding of what a VAT and sales tax are, I'd like to hear it.
The responses on this thread and others on FR are very frustrating. It shows how little people (even freepers) know about our current tax system and economics in general.
Cain has at least started the education process. He is taking heat for it, but he is right. 9-9-9 will cause a huge surge in this country's economy. It would dwarf what happened after the Reagan tax cuts and everybody will benefit.
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