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To: AZGOPer; GeneralHavoc; Dr. Scarpetta; smokeyb; SamInTheBurgh
"...i've been looking at the Pennsylvania's political scene lately tracing back thru 1988 and done the math."

No disrespect intended, but while you were in Arizona looking at numbers, I've been working with the campaigns and the candidates. Bush I won because people thought that his first term would be Reagan III. For term II, Bush I screwed the pooch by breaking his no new tax vow. Conservatives stayed home. Bob Dole sucked as a candidate. He got the nomination because he paid his dues and wanted to tell his great grand children that he ran for president. Again, conservatives stayed home.

Before you (or any one else) goes off on conservatives for this practice, all I can say is deal with it. Conservatives with principles won't compromise their values and the GOP better learn the lesson or expect to lose.

Mike Fisher was Bob Dole II. His candidacy was a payoff for years of faithful service to the GOP. He must have thought that Rendell signed off on the deal too, because he forgot to campaign. Fisher was the weakest candidate that I've ever seen. I worked on the campaign purely because I didn't want Rendell to win. I won't put that kind of effort into another candidate if he doesn't show the promise of a Pat Toomey. Casey lost the primary to Rendell because he didn't have the feet on the ground to make it happen. It was a dismal campaign effort.

Interestingly, Rick Santorum - one of the most conservative GOP Senators - WON the same election that "W" lost. Toomey won his race that year too by preaching the conservative message. It was his biggest margin to date.

Another race that you don't mention is for the Allegheny County Chief Executive. The incumbent Republican was pro choice. The Democrat challenger was pro life. The pro life groups swarmed to him and he handily defeated the incumbent.

I think what you are missing is the people themselves, the candidates and their personalities. Where a strong and principled candidate runs a strong campaign, he wins. When he tries to blur the differences thinking that he can pick up the middle, he loses. The reason is that the few (relatively speaking) 'undecideds' that he picks up are more than offset by the loss of the base that is alienated by the pandering. He also loses the activism and vote generating capacity of the base. (W, are you listening?)

"So, i really cannot envision a scenario where Toomey would pull this off."

Have you seen the poll numbers? In the last 90 days, Toomey has gone from a 23% point deficit to a 9% deficit. It is now a horse race. The closer those numbers get, the more outside support Toomey will get. There are a lot of people around the country that want Specter gone and they are putting their money where their mouth is to do it.

In this race, like the others I mentioned above, it is the candidate and how he presents his philosophy that makes the difference. They both boast of their conservatism but only Toomey has the record to back it up. Specter's disingenuousness is costing him. He'd do better if he proudly proclaimed his liberalism than lying about it.

" I really think that this race should be reserved for a time when Republicans control the Senate with 54-55 seats, i would be all for Toomey then. But this isn't the time unfortunately."

Toomey is the man and this is the time. We've waited almost 70 years for an opportunity to rule based on GOP principles. The Specters, Snowes, Chaffees, and Jeffords have obstructed that chance as much as the Democrats. Specter and the rest of the lot have to go.

And rest easy. We will pick up other seats as well as converting the PA seat into not only a Republican (from RINO) but also to conservative.

14 posted on 03/23/2004 11:09:26 PM PST by Badray (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown. RIP harpseal.)
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To: Badray; SamInTheBurgh
"....What difference does it make if we have Joe Hoeffel in the Senate or if we have Arlen Specter who votes like Joe Hoeffel in the Senate?...."


The difference is Tom Daschle or Hillary Clinton as majority leader vs. Bill Frist. It is hard to argue that conservatives wouldn't be better off without the latter or that it doesn't make a difference. If Tom Daschle was the leader for the last year, NO tax cut in 2003, NO ban on infanticide, NO new judges confirmed, but MORE spending. It DOES make a difference. That is what my argument comes down to. I would love a Toomey vs. Specter race.....but in 1998 when the GOP controlled 55 seats.

"....The Specters, Snowes, Chaffees, and Jeffords have obstructed that chance as much as the Democrats. Specter and the rest of the lot have to go...."

I don't agree with them on much either but you simply have to consider the states they represent are hardly conservative territory, especially Rhode Island. Picking up Republican seats in these very liberal areas are huge advantage while we are loosing in conservative areas such as SD,ND,NE. The few benefits that these Senators give the GOP are crucial ones; controlling who chairs the committees, providing crucial votes on some measures, and supporting all of Bush's jucidial nominees to date. America is a much less conservative country now and the political reality is that the GOP must have room for these Senators until we expand to a healthy enough majority.

"...Throw your numbers out the door and stand for principle..."

I do think something is better than nothing at all. Not having accomplished anything for the sake of principle doesnt have much to do with principle at all. Instead, it can end up setting your agenda back decades.

"...Where a strong and principled candidate runs a strong campaign, he wins. When he tries to blur the differences thinking that he can pick up the middle, he loses...."

Well, it looks like my opinion is the minority in the message boards and Toomey has a very good chance of ousting Specter. I can only say i hope you are right because Toomey is going to need all the conservative support he can get plus a large share of the votes of fiscally liberal Western PA. And the people you have been out campaigning with who are enthusiastic, i certainly hope that this enthusiasm is felt all thru the state since it will be crucial in determinging the next Senator from PA. It will also determine who exactly knows what they are talking about on these Message Boards as well.
17 posted on 03/24/2004 7:56:03 PM PST by AZGOPer
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To: Badray; AZGOPer; GeneralHavoc; smokeyb
To AZGOPer:

As a Pennsylvanian, I promised Specter's office I wouldn't vote for him again after the Scottish vote, and I won't. I voted for him in the past, but I've had it with him.
19 posted on 03/25/2004 4:54:46 AM PST by Dr. Scarpetta
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