Posted on 09/27/2003 8:46:49 PM PDT by thoughtomator
Edited on 09/27/2003 9:33:29 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
The laws of physics are never violated; do you believe rights, since they are ("like the laws of physics"), can never be violated?
Yes.
Rights can not be violated, in the way you mean.
No matter how strong the interference put against exercising a Right, that Right exists at full strength.
The only practical application for your theory on 'rights' is that libertarians can educate other people about their 'rights.'
That's not a practical application.
If the concept of "rights" had no purpose other than discussion, there would be no practical application at all; discussing "rights" would be a waste of time.
What you fail to grasp is that I am promoting a practical application of restoring meaning to the word 'rights' to groups of people (communities) that are interested in preserving a culture that respects their rights. Under your context, rights have no meaning since they can be violated at will and at this late date, there seems to be no political interest in restoring them.
You are promoting the idea that communities should get together and decide, in the interest of preserving their culture, to pretend that imaginary "rights" exist, even though a man who's not blinded to reason would know that "rights" are just a way to keep the mass of people quiet while they're told what to do and what to say by their Democratically elected leaders.
That's socialism..
I define it the same way all of our criminal justise system defines it, and always has.
You seem to want to define it so that a state can claim the power to sequester pregnant women, as per MrLeroy, correct?
I want it defined like any other word in the dictionary.
Me too.. I've been saying all along that I agree with conventional dictionary definitions. You aren't listening.
I claim that the reason you are avoiding presenting a clear definition of the word 'murder' is that to do so would undermine your claim that abortion is not so. I challenge you to define the word 'murder' - not refer to any third party, but define it as you yourself use the word - or accept my definition.
And your definition seems to want to define abortion as murder so that a state can claim the power to sequester pregnant women, -- is that correct?
-- If not, restate your definition.
Lets demonstrate the opposite when the state gives us 'rights' I don't want: I wish to live in a community that respects the rights of the unborn. The supra state says that even on my own property, the unborn are not entitled to a full set of rights.
A government neither gives nor takes Rights away.
The "supra state" you're postulating is not granting Rights never before seen, it's creating bad law based upon false premises.
I wish to live in a community that decides on a local basis what is obscene and what isn't obscene. The supra state says that standards are set in DC not in localities.
In a just government based upon our Constitution, the moral determination of what is and is not obscene would be a local matter, and the national government would not interfere.
The supra state says that even on my own property ...
I caught the outrage, did you?
You know instinctively that government has no business interfereing with what you do on your property.
Society is not allowed to tell you what to do at home, that's private.
You refused to renounce Lincoln (or maybe you did)
Not on this thread, but yes, Lincoln was a bad man, a tyrant, a traitor to his oath, a violator of the Constitution, a lover of slavery, and a murderer of hundreds of thousands of people, both his own citizens and citizens of the Confederacy.
Did I leave anything out?
my understanding of you is that you will simply spend your life hoping that the law of unintended consquences will save your culture and your version of liberty.
If I'm that passive, why am I here fighting socialism?
If someone can violate my rights at will, as government can, are rights something I really have? If the government is no longer legitimate, and there is no recourse, what are these rights worth? If the ruling powers say that my rights are just fine (see Patriot Act) how can I tell that they are lying?
Are their lips moving?
The Founders told us that the natural tendency of any government is to become a tryanny, and that Patriots must be ready to fight to keep government honest.
You say you have no recourse against those who violate your Rights? Read Jefferson again. Or Washington. Or Adams. Or Henry. Heck, just pick any one of them.
JohnGalt - when I boldly stated there are no rights, simply traditions respected by the community
When you state that "rights" are not Rights, but simply traditions respected by the community, you are saying that God did not grant Rights, that Man invents "rights," and that man can alter or abolish "rights" at will.
A Law founded upon government-invented principles, principles that can be changed at any time, principles that everybody is expected to accept as "rights" even as the definitions change, is socialism. Any law, no matter how "bad" you think it is, can ever really be bad, because your "society" said the law is good. There is no final authority, because "society"can change it's mind at any time.
Without God-given Rights, without at least a humanistic belief in "instinctive" Rights, there is no Freedom, because a free society is based upon the protection of those unalterable Rights.
State laws on murder must conform to our Constitution & BOR's, under the supremacy clause of Art VI.
The only violation of law that is defined by the Constitution is treason.
Any other violation of law by an individual is the respnsibility of the many States, or the People.
tpaine - State laws on murder must conform to our Constitution & BOR's, under the supremacy clause of Art VI.
Oh, I don't fight that at all, I believe in the Rule of Law.
Show me the passage in the Constitution that defines murder.
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