Any Gear Heads out there?

My Garage ^ | today | me

[Maigrey]

I'm going to jump ship here, and offer this:

I had a 90 Ford suffer these issues, and it turned out the be sludge buildup in the cylindars. (and it wasn't caught until it was so far gone to do anything about it.)

Best of luck.

[Michael Barnes]

you sure it's the fuel line problem and not your timing chain?Thanks again for the input..Was thinking about this tonight..If it was the timing chain, wouldn't the car die right away? The problem I had before the car died lasted about 3.5 minutes.

Just more idle thoughts....

Have a good one..

[Michael Barnes]

I once worked on a Mustang where someone had intentionally put water in the tank.

But if someone had screwed with me, would I have gotten 20 miles out of it before it concked out?

[Michael Barnes]

Okay..Sludge Buildup is a new one on me..

Well...as these things go, I got lucky on this one. Bush's Tax Credit arrived today. So rather than blow myself up working on fuel lines, or zap myself with ignition systems, I'm gonna trickle down my tax credit (rebate) to the local ma and pa shop and have them fix it.

[Clinging Bitterly]

Forget about vapor lock. It's an impossibility on that particular car. It's also very unlikely that all of the fuel nozzles have suddenly failed. Firing the nozzles by jumpering them to the battery could ruin them, they are designed to fire with short duration pulses (that is the buzzing sound you hear when the engine is idling), and a jolt of direct current is going to heat them up real good. And why do you want to relieve the fuel pressure? Sticking a screwdriver into that valve stem will get you sprayed with gas real good. Only thing of value I've seen upthread is the possibility of a timing chain or belt failure, but that's probably remote.

It sounds like the car fires on starting fluid , and I hope you used only a very small amount. We who run diesel shops love starting fluid, because it causes premature engine failures and brings us work that pays full rate.

I think you have a pocket of water that has made it's way from the tank into the fuel rail. We have a '92 Grand Am, the tank never gets filled. About once a year (during the summer), a bit of water will hit the fuel system and it'll sputter and die. Just put some more gas in the tank and cycle the key switch a few times. That'll get the pocket of water pumped through and it'll probably take off. I'd suggest trying that first. The fuel systems in those cars are super-reliable but they won't run on water (and unfortunately, the government makes the oil companies put some form of alcohol, which almost always has some water content, into the gas).

Try this first before you go changing parts. If you didn't get a "check engine" light, there's probably nothing wrong with the car, and if this trick gets you running and you have a light now, it's probably because that starting fluid has killed your oxygen sensor (which, luckily, is fairly inexpensive to buy and usually easy to replace).

Dave in Eugene

[Michael Barnes]

Thanks for the input..I've cycled the "key switch" a few times hopingit was something mundane (ala, bad fuel; have put more fuel in as well...). No go. Everything I have read has told me that I can get some gas on a rag via relieving fuel pressure above hte engine, or do it underneath at the filter and be sure to get nailed. Not an experienced type on this venue.

BTW, yes, small amount of starter fluid, but aren't Diesel and Gasoline engines entirely different monsters?

Like I said above, I know a ma and pa shop around the way who have taken care of me in the past. I'm pretty certain it is something minor. I'll let they that know take care of me on this one. After much reading on many sites, I'm quickly becoming aware that I will very easily cost myself more dinero in the long run, rather than walk away in a couple days telling my wife "damnit, I KNEW that was the problem"...

Thanks again for your input..

[mbynack]

Forget about vapor lock. It's an impossibility on that particular car.

Just curious, but why is vapor lock an impossibility on that car?

[righteous_harmony_fists]

Sounds like might be MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor....cheap to check out....

[Clinging Bitterly]

>> Just curious, but why is vapor lock an impossibility on that car?

Vapor lock occurs when a fuel pump on the engine "pulls" fuel from the tank, and the low pressure in the line at the suction side of the pump, usually combined with heat, allows the fuel to "boil" inside of the line, turning it into a vapor. Because of the design of the early camshaft driven diaphragm style pumps, they don't push vapor through themselves as well as they do liquid, so when the bubble of vapor hits the pump it stops working.

This car almost certainly has a submerged fuel pump inside the tank, which maintains a positive pressure in the lines at all times, so one of the two conditions necessary to create a vapor lock never exists.

Dave in Eugene

[Clinging Bitterly]

Well it was worth a shot and would have been an easy cheap fix. We get it here a lot but we have that "oxygenated" fuel almost all the time here, and that stuff has built in water (though the main cause is that I'm too cheap to buy a full tank of gas).

But another thing I hadn't considered is the possibility the fuel pump itself has failed. When you cycle the key switch you should hear it running for a couple seconds as it builds up pressure in the system. The pump is probably in the tank so the sound will be coming from the back (see my post above). Sometimes the fuel pump has it's own fuse, either on the main fuse panel or somewhere under the hood, so that's another cheap thing to check.

Most of the time when a car won't run and there wasn't a "check engine" light, it'll be something simple like that. Most of the active components will activate that light when they fail to deliver the expected feedback to the ECM.