"Duplicitous and Hypocritical"

700 Club ^ | 06/12/03 | Me

[Courier]

I think McCain would have beaten Gore handedly.

Fact. If Bush had lost South Carolina he would have been toast.

You're right that Pat was not alone in his support. But the other Christian leaders who were influential in the win have the same Pro-Israel views.

[RealityShot]

Do some real home work on Pat Robertson and the work that the 700 club does. The tax emeption criticism is ridiculous. The company is totally legit and voluntarily gives all its financial information to an independent company that keeps this and other religous companys honest. Pat serves Pat, but Pat also serves millions around the world. The millions of lives touched by his ministry in the name of Christ is irrefutable. This includes food aid, medical aid, financial aid and spiritual aid. Do your homework, this man makes mistakes (he is human). But he is still a man of God.

[Zavien Doombringer]

You are mentioning the agencies that are created withing the compound...I agree, there is alot of good coming out of that compund. He doesn't do it himself, he has others do it using his name...I live here, I see what he does in public, I live next to people that work for him and with him...my criticism is warranted.

[RealityShot]

Ive lived in Virginia Beach for 20 years. I also worked for CBN as teenager and volunteered for his Presidential campaign. My Father still works for him after 20 years, just below one of his VP's. We have been family friends of one of his former VP's for almost 30 years. We have seen all the warts. Id like some specifics to your criticism that is worth mentioning. Please cite examples with resources. Not just grumblings from employees. Id guess anything you legitimately cite he has publicly apologized for and admitted his faults. I live next to a Naval Air Station, but that doesnt make me an expert on aviation. Like I said before, really do your homework before you publicly chastise one of Gods annointed. And yes, Pat does do alot of work himself.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Ok, so you have it on one side with a bias, I see it on the other..."You shall know them by thier fruits"..."A little leaven, leaven the whole lump"...

I've lived in Virginia Beach for 20 years.

so, I've lived in Portsmouth, VA for 25 years...that still doesn't mean anything...

I also worked for CBN as teenager and volunteered for his Presidential campaign.

OK, you were a naive teenager, so was I. Now since you worked for his campaign, did you actually work for CBN? Were you asked to tithe to CBN or was it automatically taken out?.

I find it really hard to believe a man, who is incharge of all his kingdom didn't know about those diamonds on HIS airplane!

[ETERNAL WARMING]

No. Alot of us are angry at Bush for this latest hypocracy. ALOT. The way he keeps ticking off his base supporters, he's liable to find himself high and dry come election time.

[jagrmeister]

Tired of these churlish so-called supporters who lob grenades at the President every time they have a disagreement. Who is Pat Robertson to cry foul when even Ariel Sharon is on board with the road map?

[RealityShot]

Actually, I am very outspoken about my criticisms of Pat Robertson and the Church in general. Im not bias, Ive just had an opportunity to see things from the inside. My father is also quite critical of some of the goings on inside CBN. You quote scripture but it contradicts your argument. Their is plenty of good fruit coming from that tree. I worked seperately for CBN and his campaign. Legally they had to be kept seperate, Ive never contributed a dime to either one, and nothing was ever taken out of my paycheck. BTW, Ive never stayed at a church that asked me to tithe. Once again, Ill restate the fact that you still havent cited or stated anything to support your opinion of him

[RealityShot]

Go to CBN.org and click on Operation Blessing or World Outreach to get an idea of how his "Kingdom" is actually bring the Kingdom of God to people around the globe. Once again, meeting these peoples physical, emotional and spiritual needs are just a few of the "Fruits" you can judge him by. But once you start judging, you better be prepared to look at yourself.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Again, you speak of the organizations, not of the man.

I never said the organizations aren't tools to spread the gospel, I said look at the Fortress, look at the scandals, Look at the reason for "religion". Again, Pat Robertson as a person is a nice man, he is kind and very likeable, not disputing the man on the outside, but look at what he gets involved with, look at the tax shelter. He is a business man, and an attorney.

The man, realityShot, not the organization.

You mentioned keeping things secret...Why secrecy?

[Zavien Doombringer]

You mentioned keeping things secret...Why secrecy?

My fault, I was reading something else and posted it here by accident...not referring to you RealityShot.

[RealityShot]

Who do you think is in charge? Who do you think has designed these outreach ministries? I also know for a fact that he is personally involved in each of the programs. The "Fortess" is actually many different things. An accredited University, the WOSC which is a huge warehouse and printing facility, the founders in- now a seperate affiliate to CBN, the communications building-including television studio, and office building for the thousands of employees. You make it sound like its one of Saddams presidential Palaces. Each serves a purpose, not a fortress. "Look at the reason for religion." Not sure what that is supposed to mean. Once again, Im asking for specifics as I have from my very first post. Tax shelter? What is wrong with that? Dont you ever write off Charity? He is a business man and an attorney, what is wrong with that. I dont recall anything about secrecy.
You mention "The man", please give me something specific. You havent yet. Your argument is baseless and non-existent.

[Zavien Doombringer]

I gave an example, DIAMONDS! I do not need to go on to explain anything else. If you fail to see anything, it isn't because I didn't prove anything.

I do not argue on message board, nor do I try to convince anyone who differs in opinion, you can believe what you want, as I will too. If I am wrong, I am wrong. If I am right, still who cares? I am just one person out of millions.

[RealityShot]

Whos arguing? I call it debate. You present a point. I refute it with facts or Truth. So after all that conversation the only thing you can see to me is Diamonds? Then I guess the debate is over.

[RealityShot]

Whos arguing? I call it debate. You present a point. I refute it with facts or Truth. So after all that conversation the only thing you can see to me is Diamonds? Then I guess the debate is over.

[RealityShot]

Here is a good website that would have been good for your side of the debate. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7027/business.html
Just trying to get out of you some foundation for your opinions.

[Zavien Doombringer]

Ok, Here is my reasoning, I will let you decipher for yourself.

I used to believe Pat Robertson was a great man, to most he is. But for me, I started to notice a few things. Pat Robertson has built an empire behind Chrisitianity. He has a 13 room mansion, a hotel/restraunt, a college and a television/radio broadcasting station. All of these he rightfully owns. I am not disputing the fact he deserves what he has. It is the motives and the facade that he hides behinds.

Pat is a business man, he wheels and deals to make a buck, nothing wrong with that. One deal that was found out was his use of a tax exempt aircraft (flying Hospital) to haul in diamonds, which were hidden in the cargo hold. These diamonds entered into the U.S. illegally. Pat paid his way out of that mess. There is no telling how many other deals like this were or still are being conducted. He lost his entegrety with me.

He is an attorney, he knows law, he knows tax law. He is using his fortress to hide behind to not pay IRS. This is actually an excellent way to keep your money.

Christ lived a life of poverty. Christ also said if you love this world, you are my enemy. I look at his fortress, I cannot help but see a man loving the luxury of this world!

Sure, there are agencies with in his fortress doing good for the world. People are benefiting from them, but why is Pat doing it? That is what I question...That is "you will know them by thier fruits"...

Pat deserves everything he earns, he can have everything he wants...nothing wrong with that. That is his constitutional right. I am looking at it from a christian view seeing a man with a worldly view.

[RealityShot]

Believe it or not, I agree with most everything youve said. Except that Christ lived an impoverished life. There are also many examples in the bible of how God wants his children to prosper. Funny how God does bless those who bless him. Since you mentioned Christ, Wasnt he the greatest example of forgiveness. The Bible is chock full instances where God uses the most unwilling, unqualified, degenerate, full of flaws people to do his work. Pick any major bible figure and you can see that God used tho most unlikely candidates who continued to screw up constantly. Even those who physically walked with Christ were screw ups.
I think you might be getting into trouble when you start judging a mans heart. If you can infer that P.R. is using the ministry as a mask to gain wealth, your doing pretty good. The bible tells us that no man knows another mans heart except God. Ive known poor preachers who used their ministry for the wrong reasons. You do not know what is motives are, you can only speculate.
He doesnt personally own all that anyway. They are part of a business. A business that legally and appropriately employs thousands of people. And actually, I dont believe the hotel Restaurant is tax exempt, since it is now seperate from CBN ministries. Id have to look into exactly what is and isnt exempt, I do know not all of that is.
When Christ said 'If you love this world' he didnt mean that we shouldnt be blessed. There were many Godly men who were very wealthy. Christ didnt want us to be 'of' the world. Another words he didnt want us to "Love" money, but there is nothing wrong with having it. 'Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness. And all this things shall be added unto you." Our purpose as Christians is to seek to do Gods will daily, and he will bless and take care of us. He tells us that he takes care of the lily in the field or the Robin in the sky, so wouldnt he take much better care of his children?
A blessed man will always be under scrutiny. Thats the way it is. But if we think we can guess his motives or judge his heart, we are mistaken. However, like you, I expect accountability. I have always been infuriated with the Diamond debacle. To top it off, he wouldnt answer to anyone about it and refused interviews with the VA Pilot. I agree with you on this one.
I guess some people are more forgiving then others. I would hope he learned his lesson on this one and asked God for forgiveness. I wouldnt know. Gods forgiveness usually doesnt go without punishment. So Ill leave that up to God. Samson, David, Moses are just a few good examples of how God punished those who he also used greatly. Ill leave the judging and the punishment to him. But I also wont foolishly support a chronic crook either. Its a personal call.

[Zavien Doombringer]

With your responce, I guess you and I really aren't too far off.

I figure this, If you bless others with God has blessed you with, then you will be with out any need or want. God doesn't want us to live in excess, he really wants us to give! I don't see a need to have a 13 room mansion, I have 4 kids, it would be nice, but I have a 4 bedroom modest home. Needs and wants are totally different.

We aren't called to judge, but we are called to be fruit inspectors :)

I will just stay away from that fruit :)