[ Daily Tolkien / Lord Of The Rings ] The Nature of Faramir?

The One Ring.net ^ | December 22, 2002 | "NZ Strider"

[JameRetief]

Your Daily Tolkien Ping!

Coming from many sources, these articles cover many aspects of Tolkien and his literary works. If anyone would like for me to ping them directly when I post articles such as this let me know. Enjoy!

[JameRetief]

The Daily Tolkien articles:

        ARTICLES 1-10

        ARTICLES 11-20

21) The Merchants of Middle-earth by Michael Martinez

22) Dear Gandalf ... by Michael Martinez

23) Why did Bilbo choose Frodo as his heir? by Ron Kittle

24) Cry 'Havoc!' and let slip the wargs of fandom! by Michael Martinez

25) Tolkien and Chivalry by Scott Farrell

26) The Nature Of Faramir? by "NZ Strider"

[JameRetief]

Merry Christmas everyone.

The Daily Tolkien will return on Friday. Until then, have a safe and happy holiday.

[ecurbh]

Ring Ping!!

[ksen]

Thanks for this one Jame, it may help to show others that PJ did indeed capture the essence of Faramir.

[ecurbh]

After reading this analysis of Faramir's interrogation technique, I am reminded of Columbo. He'll seem to ask one question while really going for another. My favorite is when he leaves after seeming to accept a suspect's story, allowing the interrogatee to relax, then he'll pop in the door again - "There was just one more question." Sheer genius.

[ksen]

My wife and I love those "Colombo" shows. He is a classic. ;^)

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

You inadvertantly prove that Jackson perverts Faramir, by illustrating the extraordinarily (under the circumstances) fair manner in which he "tries" Frodo. Jackson purposefully omitted the "trial" of Frodo, as well as the fundamental character of Faramir as opposed to Boromir. Given that the movie is over three hours, I can only assume that Jackson purposefully savaged this chapter.

"What in truth this Thing is I cannot yet guess; but some heirloom of power and peril it must be. A fell weapon, perchance, devised by the Dark Lord. If it were a thing that gave advantage in battle. I can well believe that Boromir, the proud and fearless, often rash, ever anxious for the victory of Minas Tirith (and his own glory therein), might desire such a thing and be allured by it. Alas that ever he went on that errand! I should have been chosen by my father and the elders but he put himself forward, as being the older and the hardier (both true), and he would not be stayed."
"But fear no more! I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory. No. I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo."
"Neither did the Council, - said Frodo. - Nor do I. I would have nothing to do with such matters."
"For myself,"said Faramir, "I would see the White Tree in flower again in the courts of the kings, and the Silver Crown return, and Minas Tirith in peace: Minas Anor again as of old, full of light, high and fair, beautiful as a queen among other queens: not a mistress of many slaves, nay, not even a kind mistress of willing slaves. War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Númenor; and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty, and her present wisdom. Not feared, save as men may fear the dignity of a man, old and wise."
"So fear me not! I do not ask you to tell me more. I do not even ask you to tell me whether I now speak nearer the mark. But if you will trust me, it may be that I can advise you in your present quest, whatever that be-yes, and even aid you."

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

I have to come clean. If you look at my profile, you will seethat this has always been an essential piece of KayEyeDoubleDee's Tolkien world.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Ans nother thing. Up until this point, I thought it was the best movie I had ever seen.

[BradyLS]

I agree with you about your analysis of Faramir. But the Movie Faramir doesn't work as a believeable character even if he is, somehow, true to Tolkien.

There is no way the Movie Faramir and his men would let Frodo proceed to Mordor after watching the Nazgul nearly take the Ring from Frodo.

Movie Faramir captures two "spies" who have a creature like Smeagol with them-- none of whom are exactly forthright about why they are in Ithilien. Faramir takes them to Osgiliath to be sped to Denethor after learning they have the Ring. Then the Nazgul senses the Ring and nearly takes it from Frodo in the midst of faramir and his rangers. Then Sam gives a speech and Faramir, Captain of Gondor, on pain of death, lets them go???

Riiiiight.

[HairOfTheDog]

Wrong character. odd mission.

[LinnieBeth]

Kay..I think you are much closer to Faramir-
JameRetief's article is a very good discussion, but I get the sense that it is more "secular" and "deceptive" and misses Faramir's depth and spiritual 'good sense and insight'.
Considering the circumstances at the time of their meeting, it is amazing that the Hobbits were not immediately slain. I don't see Faramir as being conniving- but sincerely interested in getting at the truth.

[JameRetief]

Everyone, please ignore "ProudAmerican1974" on the Daily Tolkien threads. He does not have an interest in discussing the topic of the thread and by his spamming of the Viggo interview and responses on his vanities (two seperate vanities in one day) to "boycott Lord Of The Rings", he is only here to disrupt this thread. The Daily Tolkien articles are here for the FR fans of Tolkien's works and is meant to be a civil discussion.

If you feel like responding to him, please do so on one of his vanity threads where it would be more appropriate to do so:

Shame on "Lord of the Rings" fans
Boycott Lord of the Rings

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

I agree with you about your analysis of Faramir.

Cynics of the world Unite!!!

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Kay..I think you are much closer to Faramir-

I've completely reread the two relevant chapters several times in the last few days. Notice what the explaination above left off:

----
"'So it seems,' said Faramir, slowly and very softly, with a strange smile. 'So that is the answer to all the riddles! The One Ring that was thought to have perished from the world. And Boromir tried to take it by force? And you escaped? And ran all the way -- to me! And here in the wild I have you: two halflings, and a host of men at my call, and the Ring of Rings. A pretty stroke of fortune! A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality! Ha!' He stood up, very tall and stern, his grey eyes glinting.

"Frodo and Sam sprang from their stools and set themselves side by side with their backs to the wall, fumbling for their sword-hilts."

Now we’re at the real threat: will Faramir take the Ring?
----

Well, you only have to finish the paragraph to find out!!

Frodo and Sam sprang from their stools and set themselves side by side with their backs to the wall, fumbling for their sword-hilts. There was silence. All the men in the cave stopped talking and look towards them in wonder. But Faramir sat down in his chair again and began to laugh quietly, and then suddenly became grave again.

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial! - he said. - How you have increased my sorrow, you two strange wanderers from a far country, bearing the peril of Men! But you are less judges of Men than I of Halflings. We are truth-speakers, we men of Gondor. We boast seldom, and then perform, or die in the attempt. Not if I found it on the highway would I take it I said. Even if I were such a man as to desire this thing, and even though I knew not clearly what this thing was when I spoke, still I should take those words as a vow, and be held by them.

"But I am not such a man. Or I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee. Sit at peace! And be comforted, Samwise. If you seem to have stumbled, think that it was fated to be so. Your heart is shrewd as well as faithful, and saw clearer than your eyes. For strange though it may seem, it was safe to declare this to me. It may even help the master that you love. It shall turn to his good, if it is in my power. So be comforted. But do not even name this thing again aloud. Once is enough."

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

The following is the end of the chapter, and I want someone to try to tell me that this hero, pure of heart, the hope of mankind, was not misrepresented:

Frodo had felt himself trembling as the first shock of fear passed. Now a great weariness came down on him like a cloud. He could dissemble and resist no longer. "I was going to find a way into Mordor," he said faintly."I was going to Gorgoroth. I must find the Mountain of Fire and cast the thing into the gulf of Doom. Gandalf said so. I do not think I shall ever get there."

Faramir stared at him for a moment in grave astonishment. Then suddenly he caught him as he swayed, and lifting him gently, carried him to the bed and laid him there, and covered him warmly. At once he fell into a deep sleep

Another bed was set beside him for his servant. Sam hesitated for a moment, then bowing very low: "Good night, Captain, my lord," he said. "You took the chance, sir."

"Did I so?" said Faramir.

"Yes sir, and showed your quality: the very highest."

Faramir smiled. "A pert servant, Master Samwise. But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards. Yet there was naught in this to praise. I had no lure or desire to do other than I have done."

"Ah well, sir, "said Sam, "you said my master had an elvish air and that was good and true. But I can say this: you have an air too, sir, that reminds me of, of - well, Gandalf, of wizards."

"Maybe, "said Faramir. "Maybe you discern from far away the air of Númenor. Good night! "

[BradyLS]

Excellent work, Kay Eye. The Ringer from NZ who origianlly wrote the foregoing "analysis" of Faraimir's character was very selective in his choice of supporting material and instead demolished a strawman.

It's just possible that Jackson has captured on film, somewhere, that missing facet of Faramir's character that you and I and so many other fans love. But we weren't shown that in movie. Instead, we've been subjected to apologies maquerading as analysis.

Jackson has been duly lauded for his triumph in Fellowship. He's certainly deserving of credit for some excellent work in Towers. But he should also shoulder the blame for his abuse of Faramir, Treebeard, and the story arc for Towers.