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"Breaking News", the South Lost the Civil War. Vanity
self
| 9/26/02
| tall_tex
Posted on 09/26/2002 6:42:56 PM PDT by tall_tex
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To: Texaggie79
101
posted on
09/26/2002 8:20:14 PM PDT
by
groanup
To: groanup
Yes, slavery exists today- it's particulary prominent in Sudan, where Muslim Arabs regularly seize people from the Christian and anamist south and sell them. In this case it's most certainly not mere economics.
Though I would agree that slavery was certainly begun in the South for economic purposes. Tobacco and rice were labor intensive crops, and indentured servants from the British Isles were lousy. So black slaves were brought in. Not cheap, but effecive labor. The racial ideas developed with the settlement and development of the South. But along with these ideas there also developed ideas of freedom and liberty, which were embraced by most Southerners. Yet they viewed blacks as unfit for these new ideas of liberty and freedom. It was already well established that blacks were intended to be subservient to whites, so most people in the South saw little conflict with the ideas of liberty with slavery. I think that if Southerners had not possessed their views of blacks slavery would have been significantly less popular. Certainly the economic system was important- but so was the perception of blacks, especially by those outside of the economy of slavery and slave-supported agriculture.
Comment #103 Removed by Moderator
To: motexva
I think you are baiting me with the suggestion of tariffs. I'm not sure there was a
major issue. States' Rights is a broad topic, but I don't believe Southerners wanted a bunch of Damnyankees telling them what to do--period. I think most Southerners honestly believed that any state could pull out of the Union any time it chose to do so--many Northerners believed this also. Economics was an important factor. Pride and jealousy on both sides was present and a factor--the Yankees were know-it-all snobs, and the Southerners were ignorant farmers be presumptuous and asserting themselves above their station. Each side looked down its nose at the other. Slavery was an issue, but when you consider the percentage of Southerners who fought in the war who owned slaves, it could not have been the major issue. Why would I, a person who does not own slaves, fight for your right, as a slaveholder, to own slaves?--just doesn't make sense. And then, there is always the fact that people just resist change--any change, whatever it is--especially rural, independent people.
The sad thing about it is that Lincoln was obsessed. If he had let the South go, it would have eventually rejoined the Union. Also, the southern states would have eventually eliminated slavery on their own. Then we would not have all the animosity we have today. I think that if the North and South had stayed apart for a while, there may not have been a Spanish-American War--or maybe even a WWI. The balance of power in Europe would have been different.
104
posted on
09/26/2002 8:23:34 PM PDT
by
Pushi
To: dubyaismypresident
You've never watched Saturday Night Live have you? You should have said, "And in the news, Generalisimo Francisco Franco is still dead." He might have gotten the joke then.
To: maxcygregg
mmmmm fat boy farts....... be still my heart
Comment #107 Removed by Moderator
To: Senator Pardek
For those who forget, the reminder comes whenever The Yanks play The Braves in the World SeriesWell, you gotta hand it to the Braves. At least they wait until the last three outs are played before they leave the field.
To: sinkspur; Texaggie79
Priest?
Comment #110 Removed by Moderator
To: Texaggie79
Yep, the taboo of inter-racial dating is still very strong here: even among folks who otherwise wouldn't express any racism. Folks still talk in furtive whispers about "half-white" babies and such- and not just whites either, I should note. Often good Christian parents will not allow their children to date people of other "races", and often try to back it up Biblically (I've found that Paul's injunction to not be unequally yoked is a favorite). That the Bible has no such commands, but rather seems awful clear on the matter of human races (we all came from one family), often times does not hinder deepset ideas. While I don't agree with it, I understand it- racial ideas in the South go back centuries, and old habits die hard.
It is interesting to note that two hundred years ago inter-racial marriage would not have been considered taboo in much of the South. Many a frontier man took an Indian bride. Oddly, the taboos against black and white marriage have been expanded to include other ethnic groups as well.
To: yooper
I doubt God would be on the side of slave ownershipThis is something i have discussed in length with a variety of people, including ministers and other intellectuals.
I, personally, do not agree with slavery.
However, I don't know if we can say God would be against it, as in several instances in the bible he ordered the Hebrews to take slaves from the people they conquered. And yes, the Hebrew word used means slaves, not servants.
It was common practice to take slaves from conquered peoples until the rise of "western" civilization after the dark ages.
Don't flame me now, I said I'm against slavery, I'm just throwing this thought out for consideration.
To: Texaggie79
". I'm 23. But I, myself, have dated black women and would have no problem with my future offspring dating or marrying someone of a different race. Character is all I worry about."
I thought 23 was about right. You're about two years away from knowing slightly less than everything. The good news is that if we didn't have younger people we would never go forward. I have worked for a wonderful black man and the tales I could tell you about our out of town ventures would fry your hair. I have had black people work for me that could slam dunk any white person in the world for work ethic. But you are naive if you think you would not have a problem with your daughter dating a black man. You would. Once you have children your life changes forever. And don't go calling me racist on this. The black kid that used to work for me had the most beautiful woman I have ever seen for a fiance'. She was black, of course, but he was never interested in any woman outside of his race. I don't call him a racist, do you? He used to tease me with taunts of "you've dated a black girl haven't you?" I didn't like the connotation because I thought it debased black women. I thought that was a flaw he had.
113
posted on
09/26/2002 8:36:53 PM PDT
by
groanup
Comment #114 Removed by Moderator
To: sinkspur
"Went down like an altar boy" is old?
Hmm, I just heard it today, that's why I used it here. Lemme think.
How bout: The North spanked the South like an altar boy?
To: 4ConservativeJustices; Constitution Day; Twodees; billbears
Care to join the thread, gents? We are awaiting your arrival.
Comment #117 Removed by Moderator
To: Texaggie79
Wow, these guys must have a guilt complex. I thought you were referring to Episcopalians, not Catholics.
To: Texaggie79
What the hell are you talking about?...."the good guys lost the Civil War"?
If you believe this your warped. The Democrats of the South proved that even in a Democracy tyranny can be imposed.
The Republicans of the North stood on moral ground. So, you my friend are wrong. In the Civil War the good guys did win.
To: tall_tex
Why do people think Lincoln quotes are so relevant? John Brown played a far greater role in starting the Civil War than Abraham Lincoln did. Lincoln happened to be in a certain place at a certain time, just like Wilson, FDR, and George W. Bush. None of them were - or could have been - responsible for the beginning of the wars fought during their terms of office.
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