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Rings cast called back for re-shoots
JAM! Movies / Fox News ^ | Tuesday, June 11, 2002

Posted on 06/14/2002 1:28:43 PM PDT by maquiladora

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To: SuziQ
Have you seen the Director's Cut of 'Das Boot'?

Yes I have! It's fantastic, a real gem. The realism and sence of doom and fear in the movie is fantastic. I love it.

'Run Silent, Run Deep' is an old WWII sub movie. It's a good one though, there's something extra special about it. Check it out.

41 posted on 06/15/2002 9:17:37 AM PDT by maquiladora
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To: Illbay
Sorry, but the thing with Arwen taking Frodo across the river still chaps my bum

They make a good salve for that!

Hehehehe - There are parts of the movie that chap my bum too... but not that part. (Mine is the Galadriel Halloween Ghost part)

There are parts of the book that I read through and wonder - Now why didn't PJ just leave it this way? Other places it worked to change the dialogue and I like it just fine.

I am reminded of when we were remodeling our house. We knew what we wanted to do, which was basically to preserve as much about the house as possible, while adding a few new improvements. It is an heirloom house that I grew up visiting on every special occasion. It needed to remain the same house.

We hired an architect to help us with the planning, and he first came back with a drawing of a beautiful house that was just not ours. The little things that meant so much to us, were just a window, or just a wall, to him, and could be eliminated or moved.

As an architect, he saw our house as his palette... He wanted to put his signature on it... And had we let him, he would have created a beautiful, but different house.

He eventually came around to drawings which were exactly what we wanted. We used a couple of his ideas, but I am sure he wonders why we paid the big bucks to a designer so that we could design it ourselves.

To me it feels like the same conflict of emotions...

PJ put his own fingerprint on the story. His vision was beautiful. Some of us that were around before liked the old window more, but I am getting used to the new one, and the house is still ours.

42 posted on 06/15/2002 9:43:50 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
(Mine is the Galadriel Halloween Ghost part)

At least that was in the book.

BTW, GREAT analogy you use, concerning the architect for your house (I'm a structural engineer who does residential design so that resonates with me).

I don't so much mind that PJ had a great "vision," but that so much of his "vision" seemed, coincidentally, to be based on political correctness. (Thus, the part about Arwen).

Why he felt he had to have a strong female character right off the bat, when in the second and especially the third books/films you have Éowyn, as strong a female character as you can imagine, I'll never figure out except he didn't want to tick off a "target" audience most of whom aren't interested in the books anyway.

(Oddly, two-thirds of Tolkien afficionados are male).

43 posted on 06/15/2002 1:50:02 PM PDT by Illbay
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To: Illbay
If you didn't know... I am a gal, and many of the Tolkien fans around here are wimmen as well... But then FReepers aren't average folk!

BTW (to PJ and any other men that might be trying to think for us) wimmen don't go to films to see other wimmen!) hehehehe

Honestly, I think he brought Arwen in so that the love story at the end would make more sense, not to "be PC". This film has created new female Tolkien fans because of 1-Viggo. 2-Orlando 3-Elijah! Not because of breathless Arwen! Arwen and Aragorn are a beautiful love story, but you have to read the LoTR Appendeces to find it, and PJ just brought it out into the open earlier than we knew about it in the book...

Glad you liked my little remodel story! It occured to me as a good analogy too.

44 posted on 06/15/2002 10:26:32 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Illbay
Sorry, but the thing with Arwen taking Frodo across the river still chaps my bum.

It confused me, wasn't it Glorfindel that took Frodo?

45 posted on 06/16/2002 2:06:58 AM PDT by LinnieBeth
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To: LinnieBeth
Yes, I believe you're right. Glorfindel appears a few places in the story, but in the first film he makes only a brief appearance in Rivendell.
46 posted on 06/16/2002 7:45:12 AM PDT by Illbay
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To: HairOfTheDog
Before FOTR, I heard rumors that Arwen was to be made into Xena the Warrior Princess, and was alarmed. Now, I believe the substitution of Arwen for Glorfindel was an inspiration. PJ is pulling the legend of Luthien and Beren from other Tolkein writings and making Arwen more Luthien...If you recall, she was the initiator of lots of adventure. So it's not like PJ is making a more active Arwen from nothing.

One problem with LOTR was the poor dramatization of the relationship of Aragorn and Arwen...we are left to the appendices to figure it out and to discern her characterization. When I read LOTR for the first time as a teen, I thought, "And Aragorn rejected Eowyn for this figure?". Took the appendix to explain it.

There's no way an audience that isn't immersed in Tolkein (like me) could accept Aragorn's eventual rejection of Eowyn with no sense of who Arwen is and the sacrifices she is making (losing her immortality, her Elfhood, and her family to the West)...I think PJ has a workable answer here. Movies have to be different from books, to show instead of tell.

I've been reading of other changes that bother me more than drawing Arwen as a more active character...like elimination of the Scouring of the Shire, Killing Saruman on some sort of wheel in TTT...

I can't wait to see the ents!

47 posted on 07/14/2002 7:58:47 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Mamzelle
You are right, before FoTR came out, everyone was making the worst out of the Arwen situation, and I think it was handled really well...

Have you read the official TTT spoiler thread?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/686059/posts

We are keeping track of the rumors there and talking about them.

As for the Scouring, I agree, it doesn't make much sense yet at face value to skip it. We have talked about it on that thread above. I am giving PJ the benefit of the doubt on this one that he will treat the rest of the story as wonderfully as he did the first part... the movie will have a nice end.
48 posted on 07/14/2002 11:44:33 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Mamzelle
I can't wait to see the ents either!
49 posted on 07/14/2002 11:45:02 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: maquiladora
The Ewoks and Jar-Jar are going to be added to this one too?
50 posted on 07/14/2002 1:48:01 PM PDT by Robert A Cook PE
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To: maquiladora
love scenes between Mortensen and Tyler

I be happy if she'd just talk elvish to me (hehehe)

51 posted on 08/27/2002 7:11:10 PM PDT by JohnLoyRocker
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