Toyota’s New Battery: Aluminum-Ion Wonder or Solid-State Reality?

aluminium.com ^ | 8/14/2025 | Dr. Vab

[alternatives?]

There is a race between this and the 100 mpg carburetor.

What next? Outpatient penile implant surgery for only $500.

[iamgalt]

Whispers of a 1000-mile range and a 5-minute charge. If that claim sounds ridiculous it is because it is.

[ckilmer]

If its any good, the chinese will steal it or Musk will buy it.

[algore]

“Whispers of a 1000-mile range and a 5-minute charge.”

well, I suppose if there is a breakthrough in super capacitors too as well as 0000 AWG silver cables with gold plate.

(and you thought copper theft was a problem)

[Revel]

Yes People are clueless about the power requirement to do such a charge. Hook one of these to a 100 watt solar panel in the sun and then see how long it takes to charge up. Probably a month.

[aquila48]

“People are clueless as to how big an infrastructure commitment would be needed to support that level of power transfer and just how dangerous it is.”

Let’s see...

1000 mile range means you need something like a 200kwh battery.

That’s 12000kw-minutes, so to charge that in 5 minutes you need to ram through it 2400 kw or 2.4MW of power.

With an 800 volt charging station that would mean a current of 3000amps. YIKES!

Or did I screw up someplace?

[Skwor]

As I recall a level 2 charger, typically the best you can get for a home, which already requires a serious electrical upgrade, can do 80 amps at 240 volts, that can provide a 10 to 80% charge in approx 3 hours and that would be for something like a 50KWh battery (between 200- and 300-miles usage).

Now imagine a 3 to 4 times larger battery charging in 5 minutes, OMG INSANE!

Someone earlier quipped needing liquid nitrogen to cool it, honestly that really is not far off.

Whoever wrote this article is clueless about physics.

[Skwor]

LOL you are in buss bar territory to transfer that kind of current, the ones we use in power plants, not cables, literal bars of cooper that are also cooled.

[Skwor]

busbar, not buss bar, hate auto correct

[Thud]

That much energy in such a small object is normally called a bomb.

[Tell It Right]

Yes People are clueless about the power requirement to do such a charge. Hook one of these to a 100 watt solar panel in the sun and then see how long it takes to charge up. Probably a month.

True that. LOL The numbers from my real life experience (in my part of Alabama I average 5 peak solar hours per day, and with my EV getting 4 miles per kWh DC with local driving), the math on how long that would take is:

1,000 miles ÷ 4 miles/kWh = 250kWh
÷ 0.100 kW = 2,500 solar hours
÷ 5 solar hours/day = 500 days LOL

Now let's be real about the driving experience. Does anyone need just 5 minutes of restroom break every 1,000 miles? If you reduce the miles/kWh (and range) by the fact that on the highway you drive faster and get lower range (lower miles/kWh) just like a gas car gets lower mpg when driving on the 75-80 mph. When I drive 75-80 mph I get about 2.7 miles/kWh. And let's say realistically my restroom breaks are 10 minutes every 300 miles. The math for the fast charger then becomes:

300 miles ÷ 2.7 miles/kWh = 111kWh. I already can get 58kWh in 10-15 minutes (when I pull up at a fast charger with 15% left and charge it to 85% it takes 10-15 minutes at a 350kWh charger, my EV maxes out at 240kWh, and it's not 240kWh the entire time because it tapers down after the EV is charged 50% and really slows after 85%).

My point is that even if we drop it down from the 1,000 miles in 5 minutes charging to the much more practical restroom break time for driving at 300 miles charged in 10 minutes, it'd still demand way more power capacity than we have now. It'd be tough enough on the grid to make EV fast charging a thing even if only 20% of cars became EV's and even if we're talking only long trip charging (the idea being slower charging at home can handle local driving).

[HartleyMBaldwin]

There’ll be some epic arc-flash videos on the internet when John Q. EV-user starts handling that sort of power.

[al_c]

1.21 gigawatts??!!!!! Great Scott!!!

[aquila48]

I’d be quite happy with a much shorter range, say 200miles with a charge time of 10 minutes.

Then the current would be 300 instead of 3000amps. And that’s definitely doable today.

When I drive long distance I usually want to stop and rest every 2-3 hours anyway, so a couple hundred miles would be sufficient.

[TnTnTn]

💯💯💯

[chrisser]

With an 800 volt charging station that would mean a current of 3000amps. YIKES!

Seems like the charging cable for that would look something like a fire hose.

[Tell It Right]

As I recall a level 2 charger, typically the best you can get for a home, which already requires a serious electrical upgrade, can do 80 amps at 240 volts, that can provide a 10 to 80% charge in approx 3 hours and that would be for something like a 50KWh battery (between 200- and 300-miles usage).

I agree on the article being a bastardization of physics. If you'd like real world help with home charging numbers, here's my real life experience.

My home electrical service didn't need an upgrade (already had 200 amp service). I did, however, have to add a 240V/60A circuit for Level 2 charging. I added a "dryer outlet" (NEMA 14-50) and can get 240V/48A charging through it. (I actually added 2 circuits with 2 outlets, but that gets into having one circuit constantly powered and another intermittently powered when I have free solar power so I can charge the EV beyond what I need for the next day with free power to reduce the # of days I charge it from the grid.)

In the end my EV can charge at 11kW AC (though I charge max 9.6 kW AC). Reduce that by 10% while converting AC to DC during charging and it's charging the battery at a rate of 8.5 kW DC. For local driving I get 4 miles/kWh DC. So for a 200 mile driving day it takes 50kWh to recharge, which is about 6 hours.

Full disclosure: I usually charge mine at a slower rate of 5.6kW, which not only slows the charging but it also increases the loss of conversion from AC to DC (see link). Thus it takes more AC power to charge slower. However, I do that because it reduces the likelihood that I pull power from the grid. My solar inverters can provide a max of 18kW continuous AC power. If I charge the EV at a max of 9.6kW, I have less than 9kW left of AC load (think of it like "bandwidth" available) for running other appliances before my solar inverters have to pull the excess AC from the grid. Thus I usually charge at 5.6kW and wind up pulling less power from the grid. But I do that only if I plug into the EV the charger that's tied to the intermittent electrical panel (the free power one) because the EV is already charged more than enough for the next day. (If I get a charge, great, if not I'm fine and can wait until the sun comes up or eventually charge from the grid on a day if I have many rainy days in a row.) Little tricks like that allows us to drive as much as we want (18K miles per year of home charged miles alone) and still wind up pulling only 358kWh per month from the grid (for our all electric home).

[Paladin2]

“What’s the best way to invest in aluminum?”

Collect empty Al cans?

[Paladin2]

Why is it impossible to recycle cooling water?

[Paladin2]

I have two sets of 50 mpg Diesel Direct Injectors.